|
|
where the stars come out to play!
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.facebook.com/groups/greatpeacemarch/#!/events/194110370654852/ |
| Comments: | Peace Camp Reunion April-6-9 2012 We will definately want or need firewood at this shindig, bring it if you can and any vegas folks or anyone going to the test site before april. could you take wood out to the peace camp or stash it in vegas until april? All who sit by the fire light will thank you. http://www.facebook.com/groups/greatpeacemarch/#!/events/194110370654852/ |
| January 9, 2012 01:03:56 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States |
| Comments: | Lots of ways to be born a citizen of the U.S., Shanawa. Being born in the U.S. is one way. (Obama qualifies) Having at least one parent who is a U.S. citizen and has lived in the U.S. for a total of at least 5 years is another way. (Obama qualifies) There are other circumstances as well that entitle someone to be deemed a citizen by birth. |
| December 14, 2011 08:41:13 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.gunblast.com/081208-Newsmax.htm |
| Comments: | The above is my source...one of those "We hate Obama" gun sites that I browse now and then (right wing, but good reviews). So this is definately not from the leftist media. |
| December 5, 2011 01:41:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Based on a 1875 Supreme Court ruling, why not include that little tidbit Shanawa?...How these TeaBaggers, racists, and crackpots can keep going with this bullshit is amazing....and you! I can't tell if it's malice or stupidity that keeps you posting these obvious, and disproven lies and rumors. Normally I refrain from commenting on your post, but mainly because I'd spend most of my reply commenting on your poor spelling and grammer mistakes. Obama is a citizen, you know it, your TeaBag friends know it.....but you keep it up because you know that yelling the racist epithets you'd like to isn't accepted anymore. Just stop it! |
| December 4, 2011 23:05:42 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Shanawa |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | The United States Supreme Court has ruled that Obama is ineligible to serve as President. The Liberty Legal Foundation has filed not 1 but 2 lawsuits Both lawsuits, and the Liberty Legal Foundation promises there will be more, would render it impossible for the Democratic National Committee to place Obama’s name on the 2012 ballot. Back in 1875, the United States Supreme Court, in Minor v, Happersett, ruled that: |
| December 3, 2011 23:49:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Verna and Jim |
| Email: | vernawicks{at}att.net,jimburke_8@hotmail.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Learning much more, everyday, about the "Occupy." I would be interested to learn who among you are now involved with Occupy as well. I can see this has migrated and evolved into a "global" major awareness that is now being addressed (at last!). Please let us hear from you. Thank you and shalom, Verna |
| November 19, 2011 14:51:36 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Verna and Jim |
| Email: | vernawicks{at}att.net,jimburke_8@hotmail.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Season's greetings and love to all. Verna and Jim |
| November 16, 2011 11:54:03 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Verna and Jim |
| Email: | vernawicks{at}att.net,jimburke_8@hotmail.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Jim and I wanted to say "Hi" to everyone. Sending all our warmest love and best wishes over the holiday season. Love, Verna and Jim 11/14/11 |
| November 14, 2011 14:35:26 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Jack took probation...I did 90 days federal prison for NTS and then 120 state halfway house for Peace Camp...there was a whole bunch of mess around APT/Greenpeace '91 that had me not returning to Vegas 'til 2001, and then only by accident. |
| October 12, 2011 23:36:45 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Naneki |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Ted, you can eat chips and salsa in the tunnels while I paint. I would love for Jack to be there to re paint PELE. Hope to see ya there! |
| October 12, 2011 16:10:51 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Ted, you were arrested at the NTS right? Didn't you and Jack spend months in jail in about 1990 over that? Is that what you refer to? |
| October 10, 2011 14:18:29 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | tdthomas16{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Go back and forth on a NTS/Peace Camp reunion......have so much love for my peace family...and so much pain from the APT/Greenpeace actions. Some of you I love, and a person or two I quite frankly don't trust/hate... my soul is conflicted and I wonder if I could let myself be free to celebrate the good and not be overwhelmed by the bad. Clarification....Rich, thank you for helping me center myself and realize some of what I had to do...If I attend, we'll sit in the tunnel with chips and salsa.... |
| October 7, 2011 06:56:36 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I reform nearly every cell in my body every six weeks whether they need it or not. |
| October 5, 2011 19:32:22 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Naneki |
| Email: | seeya{at} the revolution |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | The Reformist a new suspense thriller...feel the hype! |
| October 5, 2011 16:05:45 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I am so reformed that I am almost born again - but not quite. |
| October 4, 2011 22:51:14 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I't's all hype. |
| October 2, 2011 12:44:44 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I've reformed more than Joe has reformed. |
| September 30, 2011 21:46:58 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | No, I've reformed. |
| September 29, 2011 00:16:06 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I've reformed. |
| September 28, 2011 16:32:37 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Naneki |
| Email: | whereru{at}? |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | oh how sad that nobody comes around here no more..where is everybody? Is anybody seriously considering going to the Peace Camp reunion or is it all hype? James Knight, I think we need your inappropriate humor here! |
| September 26, 2011 21:13:30 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hey Rich, I know where the test site is, (Thanks Naneki) and I agree with Naneki, thanks for thinking of the test site for a reunion! |
| September 7, 2011 20:39:34 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Naneki |
| Email: | me{at}peace camp |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hey Rich, Thanks for starting the ball rolling for a peace camp reunion at The Nevada Test Site...ah the memories. For years after the Peace March and walking to Ground Zero, I returned to the front gate and wove Ginny Dean and Liz Mareck's names into the fence. Also hiked in and planted a prayer pole as well as going under the fence and doing ritual with Corbin. I hope Jack and Ted will be interested in attending as well. The tunnels need new paint.. |
| September 6, 2011 21:29:26 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori Shields |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Lori Shields |
| September 6, 2011 03:06:05 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I meant to ask you, which Lori are you. |
| September 3, 2011 02:49:34 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks for the information Rich. I have not friended anyone on FB. I don;t want FB tracking all my connections. I don't know why I am so suspicious. Also, I already waste enough time in front of my computer as is. Perhaps I'll see you in Nevada but I am guessing my family will not want to participate in a GPM think so soon. Where is it located? Like near what airport or town? (If it's near something, or on the way to somewhere, my family is more likely to be interested.) |
| August 31, 2011 11:52:09 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | rich sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | The basics: April 6-8 2012 at the peace camp,but come early and stay late. Myself and 3 people have responded yes. Judith Brosius,Greg Zolad, and Stephane Luccini It's set up as a private event, i guess you have to be a friend or in the peace camp nevada group or be invited. I just didn't want to put it out there to the world. That can change. But i say everybody invite everybody. I'm done organizng this thing except maintaining the event page. great idea lori about mass email we have to get the word out some way besides facebook. I'll post updates here,but just show up and bring something to share. I guess with this post it's out there now. Friend me on facebook for in invite for now. More to follow |
| August 27, 2011 22:18:42 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I write to you as a pretty illiterate computer user. I could not access the information that was posted on facebook Rich. Can you post the information here on this sight? Or tell me how to get to the facebook sight again? Or have Frank do a mass emailing of the information to all the email addresses he has collected? PS Spent a whole week at the reunion and did not get to talk to enough folks on any meaningful level. It was great to see you though! |
| August 25, 2011 22:01:57 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | rich sicker |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | there will be a peace camp nevada test site reunion 4/6/12 info on facebook. |
| August 25, 2011 12:40:49 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | rich sicker |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | there will be a peace camp nevada test site reunion 4/6/12 info on facebook. |
| August 25, 2011 12:40:17 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hi Gene, I am sorry you could not make it to the reunion. But YES there will be more reunions! It is difficult to say with certainty at this time but there are plans in the works for Zion National Park in 2 to 3 years, and Cleveland area in 5 years. I really hope you are successful in you fight against local injustice! |
| August 18, 2011 14:14:21 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Ah, yes! I remember the chess games we played in D.C. when we organized the Soviet Walk. I even beat Allan Affeldt one time. |
| August 7, 2011 00:02:20 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | By the way Gene, I am looking forward to playing chess with Mike Tisserand and Marc Polonsky at the campsite today. |
| August 6, 2011 15:04:22 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | astrangeplacecalledhome{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http://astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com/2010/11/chapter-twenty-one-fifth-root-race.html |
| Comments: | Twenty-five years ago this week, I returned to Iowa for an unusual, musical marcher-in-the-home. The resulting offspring was the lullaby that's posted at the end of the chapter. In the meantime, the main march found its way into Chicago. |
| August 6, 2011 07:04:55 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks to you, Joe, another beautiful guy! I can only wish everyone a fabulous time and hope that this will not be our last reunion. |
| August 5, 2011 16:21:31 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Gene, there are so many GPMers and IPWers here - what a loss for everyone that you will not be coming. Hope that the political struggle you are involved with goes the way you want. I will miss seeing you. |
| August 5, 2011 13:30:29 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | James - I knew you would be the first to write me on this page. You're a beautiful guy! David Pettee wrote to me on Facebook. |
| August 3, 2011 05:13:08 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I'm saddened, Gene, you will be missed. I wish you the best in fighting the good fight. |
| August 2, 2011 15:54:06 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Dear Marchers: This is difficult to say, but I (and June) will not be coming to the 25th Anniversary Reunion. How could I miss this major event? I have attended so many other reunions, why would I miss this one? Especially since I still consider the Peace March the biggest and best thing in my life, the greatest adventure. There are many reasons, but mostly we must attend a critical meeting of a group here at our community, a revolutionary group fighting to overthrow 45 years of tyranny in Rossmoor. This is a very big story. Suffice it to say here that June and I are in the fight of our lives in this, against some very powerful people, very reactionary people, the same kind who took over Wisconsin and other places. I send my warmest greetings to my Peace March Family. Please know that I identify wholly with the GPM, cherish it in my heart, and love the people associated with it. I can hardly imagine this reunion without me, but there you have it: I cannot come. I am truly sorry. |
| August 2, 2011 15:42:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Laura, I so love your writing but I simply can't read on the computer. Printing it out seems like piracy. I want to buy the audio-book, with you reading! |
| August 1, 2011 16:29:21 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | astrangeplacecalledhome{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http://astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com/2010/11/chapter-twenty-love-day.html |
| Comments: | Twenty-five years ago this week the Great Peace March was enjoying the hospitality of the great state of Iowa. Firefighters came to camp to hose us off; a community band played music for us; Love Day brought march magic; Jackson Browne, a midnight concert. Then we crossed the Mississippi to meet the Delta Queen, an encounter with real Soviet citizens. Hope you can relate to the many personal reflections in this chapter... Happy reminiscing! And, A Happy Reunion! (Please click on the web link above to read the chapter.) |
| July 26, 2011 06:44:52 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori Shields |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hi Sam, Would you like me to put your entry from this site onto Facebook since a lot more folks are reading the GPM Facebook site than this one? I am sorry that you can't make the reunion but I am guessing folks would like to hear from you. Shall I post it? |
| July 19, 2011 02:31:05 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | astrangeplacecalledhome{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=6991742738943557520&postID=8332990197001423335 |
| Comments: | Twenty-five years ago this week we were getting ready to enter Des Moines. I learned so much from the Iowans I met! |
| July 16, 2011 23:16:08 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Sam Wolfe |
| Email: | smwlfe{at}gmail.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Dear GPM-ers, With regrets I do not plan to attend Ventura reunion. I wd love to hear from my fellow marchers at smwlfe@gmail.com and NOT my yahoo which is samyah002001 (note the zewroes). Remember that I was a radio "ham" in Com 1 vehicle call sign WB8ONT (Ohio s Nicest Teacher)? With great fondness for all you badly needed peacemakers and younger generations of same, have a great reunion. Sam Wolfe 3126 E Derbyshire Rd Cleveland Hts, OH 44118 216-932-8570 Yes, I do snail mail and will respond. smwlfe@gmail.com |
| July 14, 2011 20:06:03 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Dan Coogan |
| Email: | dan{at}cooganphoto.com |
| HomePage: | http://www.cooganphoto.com |
| Comments: | Finally getting photos posted before the 25th reunion... Photos posted to Flickr and Facebook (same images) flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cooganphoto/sets/72157626908632257/ Facebook:http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150360412558228.436025.764618227 |
| July 5, 2011 09:47:08 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com/2010/11/chapter-seventeen-be-here-now.html |
| Comments: | Twenty-five years ago this week we entered Iowa. I fell in love with Iowa. In this chapter: Independence Day; Plain Jane; tornado warning; a lesson from Ram Dass; hearing the corn grow; bubbles; fasting; Wild Wimmin; Dr Strangelove; and Shakespeare, Harriet Tubman and Pete Seeger at Lake Anita. Wow. Happy reading. Forward to friends! |
| July 3, 2011 06:37:16 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Laura, Your blog is so well timed! It really got me quite excited for the reunion. I hope you are planning to come! And a heads up to all marchers hoping to attend; The registration dead line is June 30th. |
| June 15, 2011 13:09:08 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com/2010/11/chapter-fifteen-mad.html |
| Comments: | Twenty-five years ago this week, we were walking across shadeless western Nebraska. In this chapter: the Flag Woman of Brule, a swim in North Platte, Summer Solstice, the Moonwalk, the amber gym. Also, a decent explanation of how we demonstrated the madness of Mutual Assured Destruction. Your comments, memories and stories welcome! |
| June 14, 2011 03:44:56 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com/2010/11/chapter-fourteen-armageddon-outta-here.html |
| Comments: | Twenty-Five years ago this week we found ourselves sleeping in a rain-soaked farmer's field. Daytime weather fluctuated from broiling hot to chilly wind and pelting hail. Peace Academy was getting up and started. Hope you enjoy Chapter 14, which includes "Lucille," another original song... Your comments and remembrances welcome, as always! |
| June 9, 2011 15:22:58 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Not yet, Lori, because I have great films scheduled already all through to the end of the year: "Kadosh," "Mosquito Coast," "The Mission," "September Dawn," "Butterfly," "The Loved One," and "Chocolate." All these are of interest to atheists and agnostics. I'll have to wait till January and start the new year off with "Constantine's Sword" which, from all I read, is a terrific film. Can't wait to show it. Thanks again. |
| June 7, 2011 16:38:37 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hey Gene, Did your group ever watch Constantine's Sword? I am wondering what you thought of it. |
| June 6, 2011 21:05:56 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | astrangeplacecalledhome{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http://astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com/2010/11/chapter-thirteen-god-save-us-from.html |
| Comments: | Twenty-five years ago this week The Great Peace March had come through Denver and stepped out onto the Great Plains. We headed northeast toward Sterling, CO. Our tolerance for diversity began to be tested. Recollections and comments welcome! |
| June 2, 2011 14:43:00 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | astrangeplacecalledhome{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http://astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com/2010/11/chapter-twelve-mantle-of-grace.html |
| Comments: | Twenty-five years ago this coming week, we left the beautiful Rockies and headed out over the Great Plains. We celebrated with Pete Seeger and Pat Schroeder at Red Rocks and cheered the generosity of a doctor who, at the rally in Denver, stepped up and wrote us a huge check. (I started loading trucks with my pal "Evan" and had a near disaster our first day on the job!) Hope you enjoy chapter twelve. Do share your thoughts and memories here! |
| May 27, 2011 05:42:16 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Steven Klein |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.quizrevolution.com/ch/a133658/go |
| Comments: | The link above goes to the Great Peace March quiz. I found it, but I don't know who created it. I got 39 (out of 40) right. And I guessed a few. Note: To appear on the scoreboard, register & sign in BEFORE you take the quiz. |
| May 25, 2011 18:33:49 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Steven Klein |
| Email: | see link on my home page |
| HomePage: | http://klein.us/ |
| Comments: | Happy <a href="http://www.towelday.org/">Towel Day</a>. |
| May 25, 2011 17:25:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | We're still here! |
| May 21, 2011 15:28:50 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com |
| HomePage: | http://astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com/2010/11/chapter-eleven-close-your-eyes-and-open.html |
| Comments: | Twenty-five years ago this week the Great Peace March walked over beautiful Vail Pass and celebrated the giddy heights of Loveland Pass. In this chapter, you'll find a little march magic, a chat with a Spirit Walker, the emergence of two original march-inspired songs (with links to the music so you can listen if you wish), and the transfer of the GPM school into capable hands. Enjoy reading and reminiscing! Chapter Eleven... |
| May 20, 2011 03:45:31 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com/2010/11/chapter-ten-my-feet-would-be-very-soar.ht |
| Comments: | Here's where we were 25 years ago this week... (Click on the link above.) Add your recollections... |
| May 13, 2011 21:54:45 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Exactly Gene! |
| May 9, 2011 13:26:27 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Joe! Go to the link below for something you will enjoy. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jokesprank.com/gallery/data/media/4/atheist-jokes-atheism-1511675-420-325.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.jokesprank.com/gallery/r_funny_cartoon_pictures_4_atheist-jokes-atheism-1511675-420-325_2052.html&usg=__e-CDiX4rnpe3Mbh-F8tmuZPWInA=&h=325&w=420&sz=62&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=Wa0MM_RxBLukVM:&tbnh=126&tbnw=164&ei=imLHTZyZEIzEsAPj3emfAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Datheist%2Bjokes%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1R2GGLL_en%26biw%3D1001%26bih%3D556%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns0%2C145&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=720&vpy=76&dur=828&hovh=197&hovw=255&tx=170&ty=136&page=1&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:0&biw=1001&bih=556 |
| May 9, 2011 03:45:44 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | https://sites.google.com/site/gpmreunion/ Hi Melinda, To find out about the march, go to the above web site. I hope you can make it. |
| May 3, 2011 12:09:01 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | melinda v. kirby west |
| Email: | kirbymelinda{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | My name is melinda i am one of the grand daughters of LEE SIMS Hey there former marchers i was just a kid on this wonderful journey. I met so many people who i still think about all these years later. I hear there is another reunion commin up and i hope to attend. I would love to see my GPM family all grown up |
| May 3, 2011 07:50:21 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Shanawa, thank you for sharing such a vivid memory. It makes me wonder, not only at the beauty of your description, but also why more of us haven't written down our peace march stories. Your extraordinary hike into the canyon is inspiring, and to think that it's one of hundreds of such inspirational stories is, I think, testimony to the lasting and yet untapped potential of the peace march. Thanks for the vision of the canyon. |
| May 1, 2011 08:12:15 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com/2010/11/chapter-nine-chernobyl.html |
| Comments: | Here's where we were 25 years ago this week. Hope you'll post comments and recollections! |
| April 29, 2011 06:45:42 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Yes, Shanawa - we scared everybody away, even Marc and Joe. But I am glad you are here. Did you say you may not make it the big reunion because of a big walk you will be taking? |
| April 28, 2011 22:30:37 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | Hi Gene! |
| April 28, 2011 22:02:40 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks for your beautiful comments, Shanawa. Yes, peace on this page too. But not so much that the place goes dead. Marc - where are you? |
| April 28, 2011 05:11:28 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Shanawa |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | Well, Almost anything the left has to say. |
| April 28, 2011 01:46:03 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Ah, Shanawa - I see you are passionate about this. And because I have been a socialist ever since my college days, I have a lot invested in that belief system. I could defend socialism to the death as well as you would "die fighting it." When the barricades are in the streets (as well they may be some day) you and I - comrades on the Great Peace March - will find ourselves on opposite sides. For now you and I can carry on here the way Marc and I often carry on. But I'm afraid it will bore most people. I don't know. What do you think? |
| April 27, 2011 23:28:06 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Yes, Shanawa, taxes are a joke. And the joke is on us. When multi-billion corporations such as GE pay no taxes at all, but instead get OUR money funneled to them in the form of subsidies and bailouts, it is a very cruel joke. When a few pigs at the trough gobble up 80% of the wealth and leave 20% to the rest of us, the joke is more than cruel – it is brutal. TAX THE RICH! Let them pay only their FAIR share. But fairness is a stupid word in our system which is called “C...” But I don’t want to mention that C word. I myself am a “S...” – but no, I dare not utter the S word. |
| April 27, 2011 15:44:46 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | 25th anniversary of the Chernobyl |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | 25 years ago, someone brought a television out into the desert, hooked it up to the generator and we watched the Chernobyl drama unfold. I was with the Japanese girls and they were so upset, I do not speak Japanese, but I understood everything they were saying. When we sat down, one of them sat on a cactus and we were glad there was something to DO, pulling the spikes out of her fanny. What with the Fukushima disaster I have been thinking about them quite a bit these days. Does anyone know their names and where they are? |
| April 26, 2011 17:21:40 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Shanawa |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | If a church can have all that just think of what you and I can have without taxes. Taxes are the joke. |
| April 26, 2011 17:16:39 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Oh, wow! Is it the Catholic Church that is the biggest owner of property in the world - all tax free? Or is it the Mormon Church? Why, when I lived and worked at Harbin Hot Springs those many, many lush acres were all tax free under the guise that the place was a church - a New Age church, Heart Consciousness they called it. What a joke! |
| April 26, 2011 07:24:22 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks Lori. I look forward to seeing the film or reading the book or both. Gene, what do you think about taxing church property and income? |
| April 25, 2011 22:36:33 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I wish I could join you for the discussion after you watch the film Gene. It is a lovely and painful story because the author/main character is struggling so hard to love his church (he is not making this film to tear down his church,)... yet he has such profound misgivings about it's bloody past (present and future). Great flick! I want to hear your thoughts about it after you watch it. |
| April 25, 2011 19:35:05 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Wow! Thanks so much, Lori! I’m glad to hear you recommend that film. I manage a Freethinkers Film Festival for our Atheist Club here in our 10,000 member senior community. We show a movie a month. “Constantine’s Sword” I heard of vaguely, but did not look into it. Thanks to you I just read the Amazon reviews. Perfect for us! “’Constantine’s Sword’ is a cry from the heart about the abuse of religion when aligned with the state.” - New York Times. “Constantine’s Sword” is an astonishing exploration of the dark side of Christianity, warning of what happens when military power and religious fervor are joined.” I will schedule this soon and I thank you. |
| April 25, 2011 05:09:27 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Oh yeah, it is also a really thick book. Got to through chapter 4 and decided to rent the movie instead. My family was glad to have me back. |
| April 25, 2011 02:57:32 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hey Joe, you might really like the movie Constantine's Sword. The link between religion and war. Picks on Evangelicals and Catholics mostly. All with good cause. Excellent flick. |
| April 25, 2011 02:56:06 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | You are so right Ted, not only about Catholicism but about all institutional religions. Most Catholics are wonderful people who try every day to live out the true message of their faith. Jesus if he ever existed would be spinning in his grave or raging from the gates of heaven about the institutional Roman Catholic Church and all the atrocities committed by that institution in his name. Of course that institution is only as good as the people running it and those Catholic people over the centuries have committed the most heinous acts imaginable. I just heard today that a US judge is allowing the victims of priest abuse to sue The Vatican. The Vatican claims that it is not responsible as always though it has no problem disciplining priests who dissent from The Vatican political line. I also heard a bit of the current pope's town hall meeting. The questions and participants were screened in advance and the whole thing was scripted - in other words a public relations ploy - a farce. |
| April 23, 2011 15:29:46 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | After having served 8 years in Catholic school (altar boy, crossing guard, 4 years perfect attendance, 4.0 GPA) I have to argue....while the Church (big C) has a really bad history (Crusades, Indian Schools, etc.)...there have been/are billions of people who have, with faith, kept a history of moral good going. nursing homes,Catholic Worker houses, disaster aid agencies, down to the little day to day niceties. The basic tenets of all religions are good, but the people that twist that logic or follow it to extremes are the problem. I remember at the end of the New England walk, we stayed at Friends house and a banner on the wall read "We believe the spirit of God is in every man, we cannot prove this, but when Man acts as if it is true, our faith is justified"...I've always loved this. Remember, WWJD falls within the 3 basic ways of telling Right from Wrong. |
| April 22, 2011 18:03:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | A priest got hot and bothered over me when I was 16, but luckily for me and for him, he did not touch me. Yes, the damage done to human sexuality alone by the Abrahamic religions is incalculable. I have a modest proposal for those in congress creating our so-called budget (I wish I could spend anything I wanted and pay no taxes!). How about we tax the churches! Let us start with property taxes and then move on to income tax. That would go a long way to solving the gap between spending and revenue. |
| April 18, 2011 23:24:42 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Joe! It almost sounds as if... – were YOU, as a young Catholic boy, molested by the priests? I feel that I, as an Orthodox Jewish boy, was abused by the rabbis. Intellectually abused. Well, you can consider it sexual too. I was told to girdle my waist with a particular “religious” device to separate the upper, clean, holy, pure part of my body from the lower, filthy, unclean, animal part. I was told to say, every morning upon arising, a special prayer thanking God for not making me a woman. I was told... But you get the idea. The Catholics and Jews, with all their differences, see eye to eye when it comes to sex. |
| April 18, 2011 20:09:04 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Maybe Mother Theresa has done more good than harm, but the Roman Catholic Church has certainly done far more harm than good over it's bloody history. It brought us the dark ages, the inquisition, and the crusades just to refer to the holy trinity of its sins before 1500 when the age of genocide began aided and blessed by Catholic priests and soldiers. What a horrid institution! The constant revelations of priestly pederasty across the Catholic world over the last decade or so just confirms the pervasive and widespread nature of the institutional corruption and how it operates on all levels of the institution. If there ever was a practical argument against God, the Catholic Church is it. The very institution that claims to speak for God perpetrates the most heinous crimes on his people all over the planet for over a thousand years. |
| April 18, 2011 13:01:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | No, Mother Teresa is not a big subject with me. I would never give her a thought except you brought her up. And Christopher Hitchens is quite a mixed bag himself. (Which one of us is not?) He is one of our “new atheists” - angry atheists you might say. He wrote “God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.” But if you don’t want to do research on Mother Teresa at least read the three items I cited: the Slate Magazine article (essential), the Free Inquiry interview (very important) and the reviews of Hitchens’ book on Amazon (amazing). |
| April 17, 2011 23:02:11 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.slate.com/id/2090083/ |
| Comments: | From the Free Inquiry interview of Christopher Hitchens: “One of the most salient examples of people’s willingness to believe anything if it is garbed in the appearance of holiness is the uncritical acceptance of the idea of Mother Teresa as a saint...” In this Hitchens speaks of “her groveling to the Duvaliers - licking the feet of the rich instead of washing the feet of the poor.” But I forgot to include the link to the Slate magazine article. Here it is this time above. |
| April 17, 2011 18:49:12 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Here, from Amazon, is part of a reader’s review of the Hitchens book: “In swift and sly prose, Hitchens relates his personal observations of Mother Teresa’s clinics in Calcutta. He tells one story of a nursery full of starving, sick babies crying in insufficient cribs, which M. Teresa describes as the way “we fight abortion.” He writes of men dying of AIDS, denied pain medicine, because according to M. Teresa, their suffering will assure them of ultimate salvation. At first glance it is surprising, but it shouldn’t be. M. Teresa is a Roman Catholic nun and Mother Superior; in fact, founder of an order. She is not merely Christian in a vague way, but a zealot for Catholicism.” |
| April 17, 2011 15:24:31 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Well, whenever I hear the name Mother Teresa I think of Christopher Hitchens. He’s been on her case for a long time. “Mommie Dearest,” an article he wrote for Slate Magazine, begins “The pope beatifies Mother Teresa, a fanatic, a fundamentalist, and a fraud.” (link above) Hitchens, of course, wrote the great debunking book “The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice.” There is also an incredible interview in Free Inquiry Magazine: http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_16_4.html |
| April 17, 2011 15:23:14 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | :-) |
| April 16, 2011 21:03:16 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I agree fully, totally and completely! There – that’s twice we’ve agreed. This is getting weird. Next thing you know the Israelis and Palestinians will embrace, the Republics and Democrats will be in bed together (wait – that’s already the case), and the lion will lie down with the lamb. Seriously Marc, we do have a lot of fun here. And I loved your opening line: “Even if we didn’t both agree on Darwin, we would have to agree that I agreed with Darwin, and that in itself is an agreement.” Very cute, very clever! Yes, we do have fun. |
| April 16, 2011 19:38:34 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Wow, Marc! I wish I could reach into my computer screen and embrace you. Agree with me? This may be the very first time in all these years you have done so. But now what will become of the fabulous debates we’ve had here that provided so much pleasure to our fellow Marchers? Yes, it’s best to say you agree not with me but with Darwin. But then if we both agree with Darwin, we agree with each other. Can’t get around it... It’s a great day on the Peace march Page! |
| April 16, 2011 05:09:59 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | Oh and Ted--an absentee landlord God who hopes--that's my kind of God, dude. Keep up the omnipotent, infinite work! Amen. |
| April 16, 2011 04:46:06 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | But did Darwin call himself an agnostic rather than an athsist? Yes, in this context: Two famous atheists, Buchner and Aveling, visited Darwin. The great man asked the two “Why do you call yourselves Atheists?” They responded that it was folly to deny a god, but equal folly to assert one. Darwin thought carefully and responded, “I am with you in thought, but I should prefer the word Agnostic to the word Atheist.” Aveling replied that, “After all, ‘Agnostic’ was but ‘Atheist’ writ respectable, and ‘Atheist’ was only ‘Agnostic’ writ aggressive.” Darwin smiled and responded “Why should you be so aggressive?” |
| April 16, 2011 00:23:20 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Insofar as Darwin sought only natural causes for events he was an atheist - that is, without theism, without god or gods. And he did seek and accept only natural explanations. He was like one of the greatest scientists of all time, the astronomer Laplace (known as the French Newton). When Laplace presented his book to Napoleon, someone had first told Napoleon that the book contained no mention of God. Napoleon remarked “M. Laplace, they tell me you have written this large book on the system of the universe, and have never even mentioned its Creator.” Laplace drew himself up and answered bluntly, Je n'avais pas besoin de cette hypothèse-là. (“I had no need of that hypothesis.”) Darwin too had no need of a god hypothesis. |
| April 16, 2011 00:21:46 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Charles Darwin |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | “The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic.” |
| April 15, 2011 17:48:54 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2011/04/a_taxonomy_of_g.php |
| Comments: | Okay, what God are we discussing? |
| April 15, 2011 06:18:29 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I am an absentee landlord....I am a bored researcher with his finger on the fast forward button....giving Man free will means hoping what needs doing will get done. |
| April 14, 2011 22:37:23 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | I'm confused. So you are saying you do NOT need people to do your will, Ted? |
| April 13, 2011 18:20:31 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | My response to those people is usually "Let me get this straight...your omnipotent, omniscient God needs you to do his will?" flusters them every time. |
| April 13, 2011 15:09:05 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks Gene. I just read a great article in Russian Life about Gagarin's accomplishments. From my recollection of the article he did say something from this first flight along the lines of I see the beautiful earth, but do not see god. Gagarin seemed fearless yet humble which is a rare combination. |
| April 13, 2011 11:18:53 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | TES |
| Email: | esisson{at}emailaccou.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | esisson@emailaccount.com That is |
| April 13, 2011 00:36:50 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | TES |
| Email: | esisson{at}emailaccou.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hello fellow marchers, Long time no contact but life moves on. While recently cleaning house, I came across some slides from our time together and not really sure what to do with them. About 25, so far, covering LA to Iowa (where, if I remember correctly, had to sell my equipment to continue) but will probably be a lot more, as I dig around. I probably want to keep the originals, but would gladly arrange copies. You can contact me via my email address and... Peace...it's not a goal but journey...To Each and All, Ed |
| April 13, 2011 00:28:58 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/12/gagarin_tribute/ |
| Comments: | More on our god talk here: Today the world celebrates the anniversary of one of humanity’s most incredible accomplishments – sending a man into orbit around the earth. Google has a special logo to pay tribute to the handsome and heroic Yuri Gagarin who 50 years ago today blasted off into the vast unknown. What were his first words from outer space? Somewhere (maybe on one of our Soviet peace walks) I got the idea that they were Shakespeare’s: “There is more in heaven and earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in your philosophy.” (Hamlet) Other people say (on the Internet where you they will say anything) that his first words were “I have looked and looked but do not see God up here.” Neither is true. What he actually says you may hear in a remarkable movie. It is a feature-length film with a ravishing score. You will yourself feel like Gagarin. And, Joe, you will enjoy the Russian speaking. See link above. |
| April 12, 2011 16:56:41 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Neil Young is telling me to go to his concert with Marc. It sounds crazy doesn't it? How much more crazy is it to say that God told me to blow up a school bus? No, I would not apply the individual soldier metaphor to this unless it was a PTSD soldier who did something insane. Divine will is one of those mysteries to me and people who claim to channel the divine will scare me or at the very least do not interest me either Marc. |
| April 12, 2011 16:50:14 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I loved James' contribution to the topic! Laughed my ass off! Am sending to my husband and friends.... mostly because I tend to lean towards Storm and my husband is the main star of that cartoon (without the angry edge.) Thanks for sending this along James and Gene! |
| April 12, 2011 15:43:44 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | Another word from the Agnostic Team |
| Comments: | I'd like to pick up on something Joe said yesterday regarding the God issue: ". . . God is used to avoid doing the right thing over and over again or to do horribly wrong things over and over again. That is the concise history of the religious institutions - using God. I know that many delineate the institutional God from the personal God, but it feels to me like the delineation between the US military and an individual soldier." Joe, I want to highlight a different distinction. Personally, I get nervous around anyone who says that "God told them" this or that, or who believe with absolute certainty that they are following "God's will." To me, the mark of a sane person is that have some room for doubt and self questioning--that maybe they try to live according to the divine will as they understand it, but they don't claim to have a pipeline to the Lord. Would you agree that in those cases, the "individual soldier" metaphor is less apt? |
| April 12, 2011 15:29:27 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U&feature=player_embedded |
| Comments: | Joe and Marc: You gotta see this video (link above). James sent it to me and says it bears profoundly on the big discussion we just had here. |
| April 12, 2011 02:26:56 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUDxdPBFfQM |
| Comments: | Joe, a little something to help you decide . . . click on the link above |
| April 11, 2011 22:19:39 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | Wednesday, June 1 and Thursday, June 2. Say the word, Joe, and if you're willing to make the trip, I'll buy your ticket. |
| April 11, 2011 22:06:10 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | You're killing me, Marc. When is the concert? |
| April 11, 2011 22:01:44 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | wanna come with me, Joe? :-) |
| April 11, 2011 21:25:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I spoke with Bob is God last week and he is agnostic on the reunion question. We will have to wait and pray. If Neil Young is with Buffalo Springfield I would spend the money in a heartbeat, but hey - I believe that Neil is also God. Don't you Marc? It seems to me that the question about God usually does revolve around comfort. The concept of God seems to give many people comfort about this life we lead and especially about our death that ends it. That seems like a natural need, but not really a convincing argument for me, especially when God is used to avoid doing the right thing over and over again or to do horribly wrong things over and over again. That is the concise history of the religious institutions - using God. I know that many delineate the institutional God from the personal God, but it feels to me like the delineation between the US military and an individual soldier. |
| April 11, 2011 20:51:45 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Naneki |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I believe we have established on this very site that Bob Is God. I think we voted him in somewhere in Iowa. I wonder if Bob Is God is going to attend the Peace March Reunion? |
| April 11, 2011 19:29:51 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I also think there are various realities. We have all be taught to see certain things and not others. I do not see the dirt in my own home, I do see what kind of car a person is driving... just the color... I do not understand how some Republicans can be very intelligent/good-hearted people and still see the world the way they do. Some realities seemed shared... but not all. I am not even sure when I see the color red that you experience the same color I experience as red. All this mystery is a lot of fun isn't it? |
| April 11, 2011 18:49:28 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I am sorry I haven't gotten back to this page in a few days. I was the one inquiring about your opinion on the interaction of energy , infinity and beyond. I am open to God. I've had too many unexplained things happen to me and my friends. And maybe it's just because I am not smart enough to put those happenings in a frame work that is explainable or maybe it's because I hold out hope that the unexplained things are of God, that I do believe in God. I totally respect everyone's right/need to believe or not believe in what ever.... I just have to have God like Linus needs his blanket. |
| April 11, 2011 18:49:06 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | That was very beautiful, Joe. Thank you. How easily resentments dissolve as if by magic formula. Although I am older than you two guys, it is I who am acting as a child and you who are teaching me lessons in forgiveness. |
| April 11, 2011 15:36:41 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Marc, my men's group has been exploring forgiveness recently and it seems clear that the number one person to forgive is oneself. Maybe it works the same way with resentment. |
| April 11, 2011 09:48:55 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Gene, there is no doubt that we have had some bad moments in the past that would have led to hurt feelings. I am sorry that I hurt your feelings! Please forgive me. Moreover, I think that our relationship on this guest book and online have been mostly excellent for many years and I want to acknowledge that success. I am happy with our relationship and hope you are too. I find you an engaging and religiously(!) fun guy who can make a point and take a joke. I appreciate those qualities about you. |
| April 11, 2011 09:47:17 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hurt feelings? Yes, I do have hurt feelings that go way back 25 years with you two guys. The three of us do have a history, after all. And if you speak of disrespect, I remember well some disrespectful things you both said about my philosophy and my politics. And that is why I get so emotional whenever we get into a philosophical discussion. But okay, I’m sorry. It’s been a long, long time and perhaps you respect my positions a bit more now. |
| April 10, 2011 23:49:39 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I did mean Sawada, Shanawa, sorry. Now say that ten times fast! Gene! I simply don't want hurt feelings - either yours or Marc's or mine and I am sure you feel the same way. That is all and no I do not want you to go away or the guestbook to go blank or Marc to go away or anyone to go away. So let's keep up the good work! |
| April 10, 2011 21:03:07 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I believe you meant Sawada. |
| April 10, 2011 18:47:40 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | By the way, Joe... You posted here just a few days ago this remark: “Gene, thank you for being infinitely, you!” Argumentative is what I am! May I still be myself? I love a philosophical fight, don't you? But, okay - no more scuffling with you guys. Peace on this page as far as I am concerned. Let it go blank again. |
| April 10, 2011 16:59:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Yes, Joe, I over-reacted! It all comes down in the end to my style. Instead of admonishing me for my manner of speaking, why don’t you address the philosophical points I made? Marc at least did that. But that’s okay. You are who you are, Marc is who he is, and I am who I am. I, like Bruno and Cyrano de Bergerac, feel very strongly about philosophy and I do get emotional. Shall I apologize to you and Marc and just go away? |
| April 10, 2011 16:20:34 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Sorry that you seemed to upset Gene. I thought our discussion was interesting and stimulating intellectually and spiritually. Marc did not seem to me to be disrespecting you, but rather to be engaging you and me in the spirit of the discussion. Do you think that you might have over reacted a bit? |
| April 10, 2011 11:45:55 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I do not have any information on the Japanese who walked with us on the GPM other than Shanawa. He is alive and well in Los Angeles. His family is alive and well in Japan. |
| April 10, 2011 11:43:00 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | I thank ye and sing thy praises, Merciful Ted, amen, forever and ever. |
| April 9, 2011 07:18:38 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | That's okay....I forgive you. |
| April 9, 2011 06:56:14 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Okay! Let's leave it at that for now. It's been fun and we have entertained the folks here (and ourselves too!) as we have not done in a long, long time. Yes, LONG LIVE THE PEACE MARCH PAGE. (Joe: I'm sorry I did not send a few bucks to you at your last appeal. I will do so now.) |
| April 9, 2011 06:51:01 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | The only answer we can make is it’s here, we’re part of it, so let’s accept it, enjoy it, understand it. Finally, Marc, because you often speak with your tongue in your cheek (if not with a forked tongue in your mouth) I never know when you are joking. Surely you jest when you say “I don’t think the materialist/atheist explanation of the universe is any more ‘self-evident’ or rational than a belief in the existence of God (Ted).” Yes, you are kidding! You betray yourself when you add that tag “Ted” at the end of your trip. No, I don’t take you seriously. You’re playing with me and hoping you can beat me as easily in philosophy as you do in chess. But I will checkmate you every single time! You have only at your side a few word tricks. But I have... well, they say the possible number of moves in a chess game is more than all the atoms in the universe. I have that entire infinite universe behind me. |
| April 9, 2011 01:01:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | You, Marc, are still young. You’re still sitting on the fence philosophically. You haven’t made up your mind yet. The evidence is not all in. You can’t be sure. (Well, you are very sure of ONE thing: you are absolutely sure that “the ultimate nature of reality... CANNOT be known.”) But otherwise you can’t be sure. Of what? That there is an objective material world? Well, your mind may be agnostic, but your body is materialist with every step it takes. Your body never questions for a second the ground on which it walks. The squirrel when it leaps through the air from one tree, never hesitates for a millisecond hanging in doubt whether the next tree exists. No more does your body. There IS objective reality. And infinity is not such a mystery. Actually, it is the only logical conclusion from a starting point of objective reality and the fact of causality. The real mystery is why there should be a reality at all. Why everything rather than nothing? |
| April 9, 2011 00:59:21 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Huxley did not say (as you do) that “the ultimate nature of reality... CANNOT be known.” You capitalize CANNOT as if it is an absolute principle that reality cannot be known. Huxley said no such thing. Huxley said “In matters of the intellect follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration and do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable. That I take to be the agnostic faith.” We have an Atheist/Agnostic club here at Rossmoor with 150 members, and early on we were split about 50/50 among atheists and agnostics. Agnosticism is perceived to be, after all, more reasonable, more open-minded than “dogmatic” atheism. But now the great majority of our members have decided they are atheists pure and simple. Of course, these are all folks in their 70’s (like me), 80’s, 90’s and one woman is over a hundred. |
| April 9, 2011 00:57:48 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | His follower Epicurus, the sweetest and noblest of all philosophers, has been trivialized. And HIS follower, Omar Khayyam, has been sentimentalized. Spinoza is misrepresented. But that’s nothing. Cyrano de Bergerac was assassinated and we know what happened to Bruno. Darwin is dismissed and derided, denounced and denied. But also defended! And his strongest defender was T.H. Huxley, the very man who coined the term ‘agnosticism.’ Huxley was called “Darwin’s Bulldog,” so ferociously did he defend Darwin’s materialist conception of evolution and natural selection. And yes, Huxley himself was a materialist. “I am compelled perforce to believe,” said T.H. Huxley, “in the immortality of what we call Matter and Force...” Yes, Huxley spoke of the “wonder of the conservation of force and the indestructibility of matter...” His agnosticism was not yours, Marc. |
| April 9, 2011 00:56:32 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | You won this one? No, Marc! You beat me in every game of chess we played, but I am the grandmaster in THIS game. No, it is NOT a game! It is deadly serious. It is life and death. It is not just our little tit-for-tat on this Peace March chat. Philosophy is a game of chess played for keeps, and when one side loses it is not just a matter of putting the pieces back in the chest. It is placing the bodies down in a coffin. The materialist philosophy is terribly threatening to the rich and powerful. Plato, that fat (his very name means ‘chubby’) and wealthy darling of the upper class hated Democritus and demanded that all his books be burned. Plato’s own book, “The Republic,” is a blueprint for fascism. Democritus was, as his name denotes, “of the people.” This very great materialist philosopher came up – way back in ancient Greece – with the most brilliant conjecture in all of science – the atomic theory. But of his 60 books only fragments survive. |
| April 9, 2011 00:55:10 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Mysteries are mysteries and god does not explain the ultimate mysteries to me that is for sure. I just had to say that again to my poor mother who remains a Roman Catholic of sorts who believes in Jesus Christ as her personal savior. I have a book for you Gene and for you too Marc. It is called Buddhism Without Beliefs by Stephen Bachelor. |
| April 8, 2011 21:52:19 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | The riddle is, who are you? I'd love to respond to you but I do not know who 'you' is. |
| April 8, 2011 05:26:17 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Sorry, the riddle I refer to at the bottom of the last text is, if “Matter cannot be created nor destroyed; it simply changes form.” where did the first matter come from? I see since I spent time writing the last comment that the conversation seems to have taken a "god" spin. I did not intend to make god the focus of the last response.... but what I am wondering is if matter is energy, can you except that energy simply is. No beginning, no end, just recycled and reused to form matter or make the wind blow. Or do you need even energy to have a beginning (date) and ending (date)? |
| April 8, 2011 04:52:05 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I thought that matter is really not matter but energy that is vibrating on a very minute level that we can not perceive. That matter, or "stuff" that we think is stagnant, is really in motion. That the particles that make up my kitchen counter is not really something solid, but something "alive", changing and in constant motion. If matter is simply organized energy rather than some-thing solid, could it just be (forever and always)? And is God in the perpetual motion of things? The perpetual energy that makes up everything, even matter? Could this energy not be infinite? Or do you need the energy to come from something in order to solve your riddle? |
| April 8, 2011 04:25:08 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I should have said that if infinity is a mystery, what sense does it make to "explain" it with a god (whatever that is!) - an even greater mystery! |
| April 8, 2011 04:18:52 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Sure infinity is a mystery. But is a god a rational explanatin? |
| April 8, 2011 04:03:56 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | How about mystery? Is it acceptable to say that the origins or not origins of infinity are a mystery? Or is it simply implied by the very concept of infinity? Isn't infinity mysterious? The problem is giving up the comfort of an explanation - the rational mind seeks an explanation - hence God. |
| April 8, 2011 03:05:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | A first cause flatly contradicts the common sense knowledge that everything comes from something. But an infinite chain of cause takes us to places we cannot imagine. How can we accept or believe that which we cannot conceive? There are problems either way. Best to drop the whole thing – forget about it; it’s too tough. Or, as you say, go with your intuition. My intuition is that the universe is infinite and eternal. Why? Because the greatest Greek philosophers said so – Democritus, Epicurus and others. Bruno suffered his tongue to be torn from his mouth and his body to be torched, but he died insisting on an infinite universe. Shakespeare's favorite poet Ovid said so: “Omnia mutantur, nihil interit.” And that was what science confirmed 2,000 years later: “Matter cannot be created nor destroyed; it simply changes form.” Whew! That’s enough for me on this subject. I got to get back to writing a book I hope to show you at the reunion. |
| April 8, 2011 00:28:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | You see the dishonesty in this. It is just as dishonest as the Christian who was caught up in the terrible Japanese earthquake and tsunami in which 12,000 were swept away to sea or crushed under buildings. This man crawled out – he survived! A TV reporter ran up to him and stuck a microphone at his mouth. What did the guy say? “Boy, God was sure with me in that building!” God saved his life. But who killed the 11,999 others? This god gets credit for the least little good thing that happens, but never any blame for the bad. It’s fundamentally dishonest. And so is the reasoning of the god believer who prattles about “first cause” over and over. “There MUST be a first cause.” But the simplest child could pluck him by the sleeve and ask “WHY must there be a first cause? Can you prove there must be a first cause?” No, they simply assert it. That child could say with more justification “There CANNOT be a first cause. It makes no sense.” BUT MORE TO COME |
| April 7, 2011 23:54:13 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | That’s a tough one. We have been grappling with this since we fell from the trees and looked at the stars. “Where does it all come from?” Everything seems to have a cause, what is the cause of the universe? Yes, everything has a cause, and that cause before it had a cause, and so forth and so on... Does this go on ad infinitum? NO! An infinite chain of cause is ruled out. Ruled out by religious thinkers such as Thomas Aquinas. Only god is given the property of infinity, not the material world. They allow material cause to go back only so far. Yes, we came from our parents, and our parents from theirs, and so forth back through the generations – back through the lower animals, the fish - the amoeba! Back to atoms, back to stardust... But the farther back we go the more uncomfortable the theists become. Finally they arbitrarily CUT IT OFF and say “It began here! There is a FIRST cause and it is god.” Where does god come from if everything has a cause? “Oh, he’s always been there.” MORE |
| April 7, 2011 23:33:53 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I feel violated! I feel like the time on the March when some nut walked into a town hall tent during a big meeting where he opened the long raincoat he was wearing to expose himself naked. “I’m Jesus Christ,” he announced. “I dismiss you all!” What is this??? Seven pieces of crap on our Peace March Page! I thought we solved the scam problem long ago. |
| April 7, 2011 14:46:30 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | From Hatonn |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | “Another factor in the fearful projections is that the scientists aren’t aware of our assistance or that when we are able to be on the ground in numbers that our technology can dematerialize the reactors and nuclear waste as well as purify the air, soil and water. Also, it’s not known that Earth is orbiting in frequencies where radioactivity is fractured, and her phenomenal healing abilities aren’t recognized either. “With the help of our technological assistance, she can restore her health in months rather than the centuries you calculate as ‘half lives’ of radioactive elements. So look forward with positive attitude — don’t underestimate the power of your thoughts, or call them prayers, for Earth to be in full radiance in the near term. A great deal has to be and WILL be accomplished in the time remaining before the end of next year.” |
| April 7, 2011 02:47:09 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | From Hatonn |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | “I want to mention the positive effect of this situation that’s especially sad for Japan, and for your entire world. The reign of nuclear power there is over. In the hands of third density minds it always has been dangerous and it has no place whatsoever in higher densities. But it is not our prerogative to shut down your facilities or prevent construction of new ones. It is yours, and only your collective demand for that could make it happen. Replacement energy sources already are there, they’ve just been suppressed because they aren’t money-makers like nuclear and fossil fuels are. You will see those “hidden” technologies starting to emerge, again by your intention. |
| April 7, 2011 02:46:07 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | From Hatonn |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | “It doesn’t make sense that the level of radiation that has blown across the ocean is the same level as near the reactors. And yes, we are containing those as much as possible from our ships and also we’re reducing the radiation as much as possible in conjunction with the small crew near the facility. Of course our efforts would be much more effective if the ships’ technology could be used on site, but mercenary troops under dark control are being alerted for readiness “for alien attack” and we can’t risk your safety or the ships’ crews’ by public landings. |
| April 7, 2011 02:44:48 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | From Hatonn |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | “Hatonn here. Hello, Steve! Yes, radiation is worrisome to you, and to us too because of the fear this is creating. Remember, the dark ones are feeding on your fear! We understand that right now the situation to many of you seems too serious to be corrected, but we assure you, it is not! The direst reports coming from the United States are with instruments that aren’t perfected to our standards and are registering higher levels than the actual. |
| April 7, 2011 02:43:01 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | ananimo |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | So here is Hatonn reassuring us that we need not fear a radioactive cloud or radioactivity in ocean currents, etc. Tomorrow a new article may appear suggesting some new peril. But we remain in the best hands possible, within the parameters of the natural law and the Divine Plan for this age. |
| April 7, 2011 02:40:19 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | anaimo |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I do not expect the scientific minds who have raised the cry of serious risk to believe our sources. But that does not concern me. I believe our sources and that is what governs my state of mind. At some point we have to cross the bridge of trust regarding the galactics. We can’t expect each question we have to be answered or, if it is answered, responded to with the fulness we might like, until after disclosure and first contact. At some point we need to accept that the galactics are seeing to our wellbeing to the fullest extent allowable by natural law and relax our tendency to worry about our future unnecessarily. Yes, there will continue to be Earth changes and these no one can prevent, though the galactics will mitigate them wherever possible. But there is no pending catastrophe for the world. And, yes, the galactics are doing everything possible and allowable to ensure our wellbeing. |
| April 7, 2011 02:38:31 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | ananimo |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Given the level of concern about alleged radioactivity approaching North America, I asked Suzy Ward to ask Hatonn to comment on the threat posed by the situation. Hatonn is a galactic fleet commander and in charge of all communication between Earth and elsewhere. Matthew Ward has already commented on the situation with radioactivity in Japan but the question of radioactivity travelling to North America has not arisen. Hatonn has here addressed the problems in the reasoning of scientists who have “measured” the radioactive threat to North America and in the technology used to measure it. He points out that the scientists are not aware of galactic measures to contain the radiation and he adds that, as soon as the galactics can land, the remaining radioactivity will be cleaned up in fairly rapid fashion. Overall he invites us not to fear and not to worry. |
| April 7, 2011 02:35:04 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Yes Ovid! So glad to see you here! With those four Latin words you said it all: “Omnia mutantur, nihil interit: Everything changes, nothing perishes.” You also said “Carmina sublimis tunc sunt peritura Lucreti exitio terras cum dabit una dies: The verses of the sublime Lucretius will perish only when a day will bring the end of the world.” In other words, the philosophy of the poet Lucretius, the preeminent poet of materialism, will NEVER perish from the earth. So Ovid, our friend on the Peace March Page, you are quite a materialist yourself. But that Marc should express so perfectly and exactly what I and Ovid and Lucretius are talking about... – I still can’t get over it. |
| April 6, 2011 23:16:41 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ovid |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | "Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." |
| April 6, 2011 20:04:01 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Marc, you understand me so clearly and express my feelings so beautifully that you take my breath away. I mean it! That’s the most poetic expression I’ve ever seen of the materialist philosophy. And I am including such great materialist philosophers as Democritus (he of the atomic theory), Epicurus (the universe is infinite and eternal), Lucretius (“On the Nature of Things” - what a poem!), and my hero Cyrano de Bergerac, a great materialist and the boldest atheist of his time (that’s why he got into so many swordfights!). Yours is a magnificent statement of a philosophical position rarely allowed to be heard. Or if it is, totally misrepresented. It is hardly ever given a fair hearing. If it sometimes is, it is misunderstood. But not by you! You got it. |
| April 6, 2011 19:53:09 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | With Ted’s right-on remarks ‘bout the body and Joe putting the whole question on firm ground (“If infinity includes everything, then everything that we experience is [part of the] infinite!”), with Marc agreeing with all, we have come to a rare and beautiful harmony about a very difficult subject. I hope this does not mean the Peace March Page will go blank again. What else can we tackle? |
| April 6, 2011 15:09:19 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Infinity is right here and right now to be experienced. It cannot be grasped by dualistic thought that is for sure, but that does not mean that it cannot be experienced. It beggars intellectual comprehension, but not experience. If infinity includes everything, then everything that we experience is infinite! Along with Ted(god) I say that the body/non-dualistic mind are the ground of the infinite. It does not require god(Ted) or religion and can be experienced by agnostics and atheists and pagans and Buddhists and Christians(well maybe not them). |
| April 6, 2011 13:33:38 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | That said...time is linear 'cause I say so. Oh, and Marc...I generally play down the I am God thing... |
| April 6, 2011 07:09:22 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | ...our skepticism and ambiguous systems of belief. The body is the only place where any basis for real values exists anymore. Something like Mishima's "Sun and Steel" is fascinating because it returns again and again to the body. |
| April 6, 2011 07:06:55 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Mondo2000: Your own books always return to the site of the body: as a source of power, as a center of struggle for power, as the place we finally exist, as opposed to our thoughts. Why generally are you so interested in the body? Kathy Acker: When reality-the meanings associated with reality-is up for grabs-which is certainly Wittgenstein's main theme and one of the central problems in philosophy and art ever since the end of the 19th century-then the body itself becomes the only thing you can return to. You can talk about sexuality as a social phenomenon, so that's up for grabs. You can talk about any intellectual concept and it's up for grabs, because anything can mean anything, any thought can lead into another thought and thus be completely perverted-you get to Baudrillard's black hole. But when you get to the actual physical act of sexuality, or of bodily disease, there's an undeniable materiality, which isn't up for grabs. So it's the body which finally can't be touched by all.. |
| April 6, 2011 07:03:32 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Fair enough, Marc. And your agnosticism is a logical conclusion from my remarks about infinity. I guess I gave you that opening – or that out, I should say. But you chose to pick up on only one side of my thought – the side that emphasized the inability of our minds to encompass infinity. You did not honor the other side: the ability of our minds – AND BODIES – to ascertain objective reality, matter in motion, the world of cause and effect leading to an infinite regression. Matter in motion for ever and ever! I am a materialist in philosophy, and that is why I call myself an atheist. |
| April 6, 2011 06:02:38 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Time is Chaotic....radiating from Me....every second (microsecond, nanosecond, picosecond) a thousand of Me radiate outward into Infinity. My perception is of the physical Me, now, here...my imagining encompassing all of Me everywhere, everytime...but all I know is all I can touch and prove..my imagination remains alone. I dream of you... sometimes waking dreams..sometimes so real I reach out for you (not you) and awake wondering why you aren't there with me (on the March you perv). And I can't trust any of it...ym brina filsl ni het spceas caesu ym brnia wokrs ni nariterav. |
| April 6, 2011 05:09:39 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | All three of us are having problems with infinity and it’s no wonder. I think it’s because not only as Joe says, “the very concept of infinity beggars all measurement,” but because it beggars all comprehension. We have never known infinity – cannot know it. Absolutely everything in our experience is finite! The galaxies themselves are finite. Our finite minds just cannot grasp infinity. We symbolize it with a ‘lazy eight,’ or create mathematical formulas to represent it, but we cannot wrap our minds around infinity itself. That the universe goes on forever and ever with no beginning and no end is practically impossible to imagine. And yet religious people have no problem at all. They say their god exists through infinity and all eternity. If that can be so, why not a material universe that exists through infinity and all eternity? Matter in motion for ever and ever! Matter/energy (Einstein) cannot be created nor destroyed. Isn’t that the first law of science? I love your poem, Marc! |
| April 6, 2011 01:12:38 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | hmm . . . Joe, you may be thinking bigger than I can follow you here. Hence I have decapitalized my name again. |
| April 5, 2011 21:50:42 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Everything is a part of infinity, no? We measure such things all the time and every day, but the very concept of infinity beggars all measurement doesn't it? |
| April 5, 2011 20:34:00 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | As a refugee of the Catholic church let me say that since its inception The Roman Catholic Church has been the most violent, damaging and corrupt institution on the earth. So I could not agree with you more about the fate of Bruno. But on the subject of time, would you not agree that if infinity is immeasurable that it cannot be viewed in linear terms which imply measurement? |
| April 5, 2011 20:07:36 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | “How do we measure that which does not change? How do we measure the absolute - the infinite? Do we reject the concept of infinity? Can infinity be measured by linear time?” You ask some tough questions. Here’s how I would answer: “That which does not change”? I would say that EVERYTHING changes. The only ABSOLUTE is change. The infinite is IMMEASURABLE. “Extending indefinitely” is the very definition of infinity - “having no limits or boundaries in time or space or extent or magnitude.” I do not reject the concept of infinity but embrace it with Bruno who proposed an unbounded universe: “Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve around these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds.” Of course the Catholic Church threw Bruno in a dark dungeon for eight years, then dragged him out to a blazing market place and roasted him to death by fire. Cut out his tongue first! His judges called Bruno an atheist. |
| April 5, 2011 16:20:12 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | How delightful! Who says that this guestbook's time has passed? While changing time zones yesterday as I flew from Colorado to Florida, I was transported ahead in time by two hours and back in time by about 42 years as I relived several incidents with my then 7-year old brother. I am trying to sort out my 49-year relationship with my brother and grappling with the ways in which he and I have changed over the years and how tenuous our relationship has become over the decades. Occasionally the same question arises in my GPM/IPW relationships. You seem to say Gene that time measures change, no - that time always moves in relationship to something else. How do we measure that which does not change? How do we measure the absolute - the infinite? Do we reject the concept of infinity? Can infinity be measured by linear time? Do Ted's dreams and my daydreams conform to linear time? I believe in the infinite, the absolute, but it is not a god-figure. Gene, thank you for being infinitely, you! |
| April 5, 2011 14:32:30 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Time is linear, our perceptions are chaotic. When I dream I see you sometimes as you are (or at least when I saw you last) and as you were 25 years ago. whether that's just random brain cells bringing up images, or quanta reaching back in time I don't know. I know my thinking has changed the last few years as I sometimes meditate on the tens of thousands of cell calls around me beaming imperceptible energy to thousands of receivers, able to deliniate, sort, and find recipients in milliseconds, and transmit the vast bandwidth of voices, and imagery. To think that the Universe doesn't do the same in some manner becomes harder to disbelieve everyday. |
| April 4, 2011 15:18:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Well, our posts are coming fast and thick through time and we’re sorta stepping on each other’s toes. But I have to conclude with Sonnet XIX in its entirety: “Devouring Time, blunt thou the lion’s paws/And make the earth devour her own sweet brood/Pluck the keen teeth from the fierce tiger’s jaws/And burn the long-lived Phoenix in her blood/Make glad and sorry seasons as thou fleet’st/And do whate’er thou wilt, swift-footed Time/To the wide world and all her fading sweets/But I forbid thee one most heinous crime/Oh, carve not with thy hours my love’s fair brow/Nor draw no lines there with thine antique pen/Him in thy course untainted do allow/For beauty’s pattern to succeeding men/Yet do thy worst, old Time: despite thy wrong/My love shall in my verse ever live young.” Ah yes, Marc: “eternally youthful.” That’s just what Shakespeare promises. In his poetry we will “ever live young.” |
| April 3, 2011 23:28:29 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | The opening of Sonnet II: “When forty winters shall besiege thy brow/And dig deep trenches in thy beauty’s field...” From Sonnet V: “For never-resting time leads summer on/To hideous winter, and confounds him there/Sap checked with frost and lusty leaves quite gone/Beauty o’er-snowed and bareness everywhere...” Two lines from Sonnet XV: “When I consider everything that grows/Holds in perfection but a little moment.” And for Sonnet XII - “When I do count the clock that tells the time/And see the brave day sunk in hideous night/When I behold the violet past prime/And sable curls all silvered o’er with white/When lofty trees I see barren of leaves/Which erst from heat did canopy the herd/And summer’s green all girded up in sheaves/Borne on the bier with white and bristly beard/Then of thy beauty do I question make/That thou among the wastes of time must go/Since sweets and beauties do themselves forsake/And die as fast as they see others grow.” |
| April 3, 2011 23:13:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | oh but I am eternally youthful. That part is inarguable. Joe is too. Speak for yourself about the ravages of time in the sober light of day, Gene! |
| April 3, 2011 23:10:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | you guys crack me up. I'm gonna need some mind expanding drugs to understand this discussion! But seriously (sort of), it boils down to this for me, Gene and Joe: Time is and has always been linear according to my experience and frame of reference. I just don't think my experience or frame of reference is ultimate or absolute. I think human cognition is unimaginably limited (and we can't imagine how limited because we are only human). But hey, it works for a lot of things and it is the best we got so--sorry to disappoint you, Gene--I am going to concede your point! |
| April 3, 2011 23:06:56 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I am so glad, Joe, that you brought Shakespeare into this. (I did not know that you “adore” him.) The greatest poet of all time has a whole lot to say about time. And when a genius speaks it behooves us to listen. Einstein was not the only genius on planet earth. Robert G. Ingersoll said “Shakespeare is the greatest genius of our world – the highest mountain, the broadest river, the most perfect gem.” It is said that Shakespeare is the supreme poet because he is all-inclusive, “he held the mirror up to nature.” That is, he reflected the workings of nature – not only human nature, the hearts and souls of women and men, but physical nature as well such as the change of seasons. And this is the key word: CHANGE. Shakespeare took from his favorite poet Ovid the idea that all things change; nothing remains the same. Time, time, the passing of time! “Devouring time,” he calls it in the Sonnets. |
| April 3, 2011 23:02:35 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Yes, Joe, a good kick start to a discussion. I propose that we bring others in on the discussion too. Here are some random opinions from the Internet: “Actually, time doesn’t exist except in the mind of man.” That I utterly reject as stupid solipsism. Here is one much more to my thinking: “If there’s a sense in which time could be illusory, I think perhaps it’s that people commonly think of time as passing or flowing. It’s not time that’s flowing. It’s matter and energy that are flowing. Time is simply our measurement of the rate of flow.” To say the same more simply: “When you measure ‘time,’ all you really ever measure is change.” And here is one I like but can’t verify yet: “Stephen Hawking considers time linear. In special relativity, time is linear. In general relativity, time is linear. In all of Newtonian mechanics, time is linear. I’m not qualified to have an opinion about whether time is linear in string theory.” Good quotes to kick start, no? |
| April 3, 2011 19:41:20 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Consider yourself engaged Gene, though I am less passionate about linear versus non-linear time than you or Marc seem to be. However, if you accept quantum physics then do you not accept non-linear time? Does this have something to do with atheism or Shakespeare, Gene? Doesn't everything? Is quantum physics a rejection of Newtonian physics and hence Shakespeare? I assure you my dear friend that I adore Shakespeare and rely on Newton daily. Is quantum physics a matter of faith that must be rejected by non-believer? Have I pushed enough of your buttons to kick start this discussion? |
| April 3, 2011 17:53:27 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | “The sense that time is linear is a dream,” Marc asserts. “Einstein proved that all time is simultaneous, just like space.” Well, it is time for me and Marc to engage again in those epic debates we used to have here on this page for the fun of all. Was it a dream that time ran out on Einstein – that in April of 1955 (76 years of LINEAR TIME since his birth - not a dream!) he died of internal bleeding caused by the rupture of an artery in his stomach? Joe: You need not “go with all space/time is simultaneous.” That’s silly. I grant you that at the reunion as we sit in the dark around the campfire with the smoke in our eyes (perhaps some smoke in our brains!) we will have an ILLUSION for a time that we are still back in the desert. But in the harsh light of sober day the ravages of 25 years time will be writ all too conspicuously on our faces and in our bodies. Dream if you like that time is not linear. Dream of heaven too! Yes, dream of eternal life after death. Won’t you get real? |
| April 2, 2011 22:45:08 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Nah. |
| March 31, 2011 12:05:54 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | OK, I will go with all space/time is simultaneous, but how do we actually experience a different space/time other than here/now? In what form are we walking in the desert now? |
| March 29, 2011 12:12:51 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | That we were walking in the desert a full 25 years ago is not a dream, but the feeling that it was only yesterday is a dream. Or is it the other way around? |
| March 28, 2011 13:21:05 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Just want to send a big fat thank-you shout out to Lori, Laura, Angie and everyone else who is organizing the upcoming reunion. GREAT WORK! And Joe, in answer to your question, don't you know time is a dream? Peace and love! |
| March 26, 2011 03:47:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001994298199 |
| Comments: | The Peace Flag Flies at Stoddard Wells once more! My trip to Stoddard Wells was a trip through time and space and the memories in between. I've posted some photos and info on my FaceBook wall for your perusal. Martin "Born Again" Hippie |
| March 24, 2011 23:07:30 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Tall Bicycle Frank |
| Email: | www.memoryvault.yes |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Happy Equinox dear Marchers. 25 years of success, in that the world is still here, at least for now. We will be there at Ventura and love the idea of mild summer weather. Daytime temps like Colorado and nights like Oregon; the best of both worlds. We are praying for Japan and for ourselves, knowing we are all one on this lovely planet. As always, time will tell. Love to all from the Sahlems. |
| March 22, 2011 06:03:12 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I agree with Shanawa and her concerns for Japan. And I have no graceful way to go from the concerns we all have for Japan to information about the 25th reunion. I feel this information should be given out as soon as possible since people are trying to firm up their Summer plans. For information and registration for the 25th reunion, go to: https://sites.google.com/site/gpmreunion/ Print the registration form and mail form and payment to the address on the form. Please let other marchers know about the web site. Thank you |
| March 16, 2011 02:11:09 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Diane Hara |
| Email: | krazy4peace{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Howdy everyone, We had a wonderful celebration of 25years ago yesterday at the steps of the LA city hall. We enjoyed those who could make it and remembered those who could not. I am trying to put together a Life Faire and Concert for August 6th. I have a speaker and would love to get Wild Wimmin and Collective Vision together on stage again. I would love any of you who would like to participate in this event to brush up on your performance skills. Our talented people gave us strength on the march and will continue to do the same now. Alexandra Paul asked yesterday (paraphrase) What will keep the march from fading from memory, or how do we keep it alive? Well I would like to bring out the press, any film, journalism,art etc students to come out and document this event. I would like to hear form the next generation so speak up. How do you guys feel? Thanks, Diane Hara |
| March 2, 2011 22:38:49 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Naneki |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | How can it possibly be 25 yrs since the March? Happy anniversary everybody!! see ya at the reunion! |
| March 1, 2011 21:35:09 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com |
| Comments: | To celebrate our 25th anniversary, I am pleased to announce the completion of my memoir, A Strange Place Called Home: My Walk Across America on the Great Peace March. I offer this memoir to you as a gift for the indescribable experience you have given me. Please share it as you wish. http://astrangeplacecalledhome.blogspot.com |
| March 1, 2011 18:56:27 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Happy March 1st! Where did the 25 years go? |
| March 1, 2011 12:48:26 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Jypsy Jim |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000144217071 |
| Comments: | Looking forward to seeing as many of you as possible in Ventura. My internship will be over by then, and I will be sure to secure the time if any permanent job offers come out of it. |
| February 28, 2011 03:00:05 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Jypsy Jim |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000144217071 |
| Comments: | Looking forward to seeing as many of you as possible in Ventura. My internship will be over by then, and I will be sure to secure the time if any permanent job offers come out of it. |
| February 28, 2011 02:59:38 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | MEDIA ADVISORY FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Jerry Rubin 310-399-1000 JerryPeaceActivistRubin@earthlink.net "GREAT PEACE MARCH" 25TH ANNIVERSARY PUBLIC COMMEMORATION ON THE DATE AND AT THE LOCATION WHERE THE 1,000+ PERSON, 8 1/2- MONTH CROSS-COUNTRY MARCH BEGAN FROM L.A. TO WASHINGTON D.C. FOR PEACE AND GLOBAL NUCLEAR DISARMAMENT TUESDAY, MARCH 1, 2011 12:00 NOON SPRING STREET STEPS OF LOS ANGELES CITY HALL 200 NORTH SPRING STREET GUEST SPEAKERS: Bill Rosendahl, Los Angeles City Councilman Larry Frank, Los Angeles City Deputy Mayor Fred Segal, Entrepreneur; Peace March Supporter Alexandra Paul, Actress; Activist; Peace March Participant Jerry Rubin. Activist; Peace March Participant Frank Sahlem, Poet; Peace March Participant Dr. Jimmy Hara, Physicians for Social Responsibility Rabbi Leonard I. Beerman AT 12:45 PM THE COMMEMORATION WILL CONCLUDE WITH A SHORT PEACE MARCH AROUND THE PERIMETER OF CITY HALL. FOR FURTHER INFOR |
| February 23, 2011 03:05:44 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Maria Lopatic Panagopoulos |
| Email: | mlopatic{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I am looking for any information about our fellow marcher who has marched on several years ago..Bill Patterson.He was an artist, retired Pittsburgh steel worker, and wore a Pittsbugh Pirates hat as he sketched in "Bic and spit" as he would say. I wonder how he died, when, etc...I would appreciate it. Please e-mail me...mlopatic@yahoo.com. Thanks |
| February 20, 2011 06:45:53 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I look forward to reading another "version" Laura. I think I've read all the available ones so far: Gene's, Martin's, Franklin's, Anne's, Sue's and Ashley's. I've had the experience with all of them, but perhaps most so with Ashley's because she wrote about every single day, of reading a line that jog's loose a memory and suddenly a whole day opens up in my my mind full of details I hadn't thought of since then. Amazing what's stored up there waiting for the key to unlock it. |
| February 15, 2011 20:11:10 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thank you, Gene, for your kind words of support. I wonder if you would consider making "Lost Notebooks" into a blog. I can't say it's an easy process, but it's a great way to get your work out there for others to read. I feel strongly that there's not enough written about the GPM, especially considering the unique perspective each and every one of us had. Those perspectives are what Howard Zinn meant by "a people's history." Our story can only be told by us, and only a few have done so. I am, by the way, one of the thousands who have read "Lost Notebooks." They are, one would say, an important artifact, not to mention really entertaining reading! If you want to make them into a blog, let me know as I can give you some tips. |
| February 12, 2011 07:49:00 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | That’s fantastic, Laura! I can’t wait to see your work. It will take its place next to my online book “Lost Journals from the Great Peace March” which is posted on Authors Den. 2357 people have read it on their computers. Yours will catch up to mine in no time. |
| February 11, 2011 15:56:08 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hey, Y'all, to celebrate the 25th anniversary of our departure from Los Angeles, I'll be releasing my memoir about those unforgettable eight-and-a half months on the road. It includes the story of the march based on the journal I kept, many photographs donated by our fellow marchers, and nine original songs I wrote (or co-wrote with Melissa Davis, in the case of "Test Ban Treaty") while on the march. I'm putting on the final touches now, and I'll post the details on this page on MARCH 1st. I'm publishing the book as a blog so all who are interested can read it - for free. You can't believe how writing this memoir has brought all of you back into my mind. I hope the book will do the same for you. |
| February 10, 2011 21:37:31 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | lori Shields |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I spoke with a Ventura ranger last night. He said that the swimming is a bit dangerous off our beach. (Wading, kite surfing and rock collecting were fine activities) but that the beach at Carpenteria is much, much better for swimming. He also said that the closest life guard station to us is two mile away (not 500 yards away which a Ventura life guard told me it was). Sorry for the misinformation. Lori |
| February 7, 2011 16:27:07 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Shanawa |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I don't think I will be attending. I am thinking of going on the Great Green March. I hope all of you have a wonderful time meeting up with each other. |
| February 6, 2011 19:01:33 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Ida just asked me about swimming. There is a lifeguard station on Emma Wood North Beach. This is 500 yrds from the South Emma Wood State Beach where we are camping. We can swim at our own risk on the South beach. We can shower off with cold water in an out-door shower located near our comfort station (bathroom). Our camping sites are 200 yrds from the ocean. There are also hiking trails. Wind and kite surfing (whatever that is) and a great bike trail. There is a Von's grocery store 3/4 mile from the camp site. And I read that there is fishing as well. There will be a fair happening at the Ventura fair grounds not too far from our camp site so some evenings there may be fireworks as well. |
| February 3, 2011 22:43:30 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Yes, Ventura for our big 25th Anniversary Reunion! Thanks, organizers. We will be there. |
| February 3, 2011 16:11:45 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Sonia |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Disregard my suggestion about Best Friends. I misread Lori's post. See you all in Ventura. |
| February 3, 2011 15:31:30 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | We are excited and plan to attend (Alexander, Natasha, Joe and Lori). Barbara Cone-Milazzo has been organizing the California reunions for many years. Coleen and Dennis Ashley's daughter Jessie and her husband Evan live in Ventura County. Barbara is an excellent organizer if she has the time to help. I also think that Evan is very involved with the Ventura peace community and has organized events in that county. |
| February 2, 2011 22:39:32 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Sonia Cota-Robles |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks so much for reserving a site, Lori and Angie. If you build it, they will come .... although, invariably, a few of them won't be able to come for one reason or another..... The dates you have chosen will work for most teachers, which was the group Bj and I found ourself most trying to accomodate with dates in 2006. Lori, Colleen was organizing the California reunions and she has passed away. I'm not sure who was helping her or who picked up the slack. If no one responds to your question, you might scroll down lower on this site and see who was providing information about it last year. I have a master list of the Silver Thread (5 years old now) if that would be of any help to you. You can email me at gato(at)opus1.com or call me at 520-248-1961. A note to animal lovers out there: the Best Friends Animal Sanctuary is near Zion so you can make this a two for the price of one trip and volunteer to walk dogs for a day! You do have to make arrangements in advance, though. |
| February 2, 2011 21:00:12 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I thought I was being funny with that last comment but maybe I was just being rude. I have no idea if the site we have now is wheel chair friendly. Mim (I think that was/is her name) always seemed to get everywhere in hers. I am sorry the dates are a challenge for people. There were no group camping sites left in July. We were aiming for the first weekend in August and in order to get most of the sites, we had to book the last day in July and ask for the site for a solid week. Then Angie got lucky and scored the last group site on Feb. 1st. We are willing to give up the sites if someone else comes up with a better idea. I am hoping someone will tell me who coordinated the last California annual reunion. I think they will be helpful to talk to. |
| February 2, 2011 19:56:57 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I hope you can make it! Try hard! And we will have a 30th complete with wheel chair ramps and oxygen tanks! (if need be) |
| February 2, 2011 19:02:08 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Naneki |
| Email: | cu{at}thereunion? |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hey Ladies, thanks for finding a site for the GPM reunion. Unfortunately, the new dates are a challenge for me as we have to move from our house at that time. I'm hoping for some kind of miracle so I can attend. I really want to see everyone again and I fear there won't be another reunion to attend...as we all seem to be, well, aging! EEGADS! |
| February 2, 2011 16:35:41 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Sounds good, thanks Sagans for all your efforts. |
| February 2, 2011 06:53:47 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Bill O |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks, Lori. That sounds great. Count me in. |
| February 2, 2011 04:21:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | lori Shields |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Angie and I have reserved camping sites for 120 people in tents and 50 people in self-contained RVs at Emma Wood State Beach just outside of Ventura California for July 31 through Aug 7. We believe it will be ok to add more people then that. It is a day use area as well and I do not think someone will come try to count which of us is staying over night. We are close enough to Ventura that I think people will have an easier time finding hotel rooms if they want them. At any rate, will this work for the 25th reunion for you? We will start working on registration forms and fees once we know enough people are interested and once we figure out food and logistics. This should be a fairly reasonably priced option. Can someone tell me who was in charge of the annual California reunion last time? I would like to have their name and a way to contact them. Thanks! |
| February 2, 2011 03:45:01 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Sonia Cota-Robles |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I think Zion is a good idea. Having organized the last big reunion (where rain rather than sun was the challenge of the day), I feel pretty confident in saying that having a few people in the area who are able to work together and are fairly organized matters a lot more than where it is. The biggest challenge of Zion is that it is not near an airport but neither is Joshua Tree and Zion is more affordable, has more shade, and has more connection to march. Plus it has Angie essentially on site and with connections. (No offense to Joshua Tree or its advocates). I'll go where it is and I'll help anyone who organizes it if I can but I am for Zion. |
| February 1, 2011 23:29:16 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Martin Hippie |
| Email: | martinhippie{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I would not consider a March 12 gathering at Stoddard Wells Road an "official" reunion, more like a "spirit" reunion. I just want to revisit the place in the desert where the Great Peace March died and was reborn. I hope a few others can join me, so maybe it will be a reunion of sorts. If enough people show up, maybe we can provide energy and focus to help make the July reunion happen. It should be a nice time camping in the desert, though, unless we get rain, wind, cold, and hypothermia. (Ah, the memories.) Hope to see you on Stoddard Wells Road this March 11-13. You know the place. Martin Hippie |
| January 27, 2011 17:56:41 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I think SWR was billed as more of an impromptu gathering than an actual organized thing. You know though, for nostalgias sake..think you could show up and try to repo something? |
| January 27, 2011 16:49:42 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | So now we have five locations proposed as the site for our 25th anniversary reunion: Joshua Tree, Zion, James’ place, Rossmoor, and Stoddard Wells Road. Shall we vote on these as we voted for the location of our 15th anniversary reunion? If you remember, Iowa was the winner. Which will it be this time? |
| January 27, 2011 16:46:37 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | tdthomas16{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Fly a flag w/a glowstick and I'll try to find you. |
| January 27, 2011 06:10:01 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Martin "Born Again" Hippie |
| Email: | martinhippie{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | If there is an official GPM reunion in July I’ll be happy to go, but I’m really more interested in celebrating and commemorating the 25th anniversary of the GPM someplace where the Peace March actually went, like, Stoddard Wells Road. So I plan to camp out on Stoddard Wells Road on the weekend of March 11-13, bringing my memories and drums and raising the Peace Flag in the desert once more. Anyone care to join me? We can talk and drum and sing and reminisce and party under the same desert skies where the Great Peace March died and was reborn. There’s lots of BLM land for camping and plenty of cozy motel rooms conveniently located in Barstow, for the less robust. If anyone wishes to join me, I will enjoy your company. If I am the only one who shows up, then I’ll enjoy my own memories and the solitude of the desert. Let me know what you think of an impromptu gathering at Stoddard Wells Road March 11-13. I’ll be there, how about anyone else? Martin “Born Again” Hippie |
| January 27, 2011 05:14:41 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Martin "Born Again" Hippie |
| Email: | martinhippie{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Born Again Hippie Allow me to jump in. It is going to take two entries. First, the latest news. If the word isn’t out yet, Freda and I were divorced last November. It’s certainly sad and regrettable but it is also positive and hopeful. Freda and I are still friends, and while we agree our marriage was wonderful, beautiful, and rewarding, we also agree that it had reached its end. We’re both better off now, going our separate ways. These things happen. Freda is still living on the homestead in Illinois, and I’m living in San Diego, at a “hippie” monastery ( www.MadreGrande.org ). I’m incredibly content and happy with my new life and path, and excited about the future. I just joined Facebook, and my email is martinhippie@yahoo.com , if anyone wishes to contact me. |
| January 27, 2011 05:08:58 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I can reserve group sites. I can also provide more details on how people can make their own arrangements for hotels, showers, food and coffee. etc. As well as pet policy, campers and lights-out. Bike rentals, water holes, soccer field, the pizza joint etc. I agree with your idea that we do not have to have it this year if people are uncomfortable with these last minute arrangements. Both Joshua Tree and Zion will be hot. I think Zion with the river and the trees might afford us a bit more comfort than Joshua Tree. But doing it in Zion next year in June might be just a bit more cool. What do people think? Has anyone responded to Angie's Face Book posting? (I do not FB) |
| January 24, 2011 18:11:33 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Sounds good to me Lori. Can you set it up? I think the way tis is going to happen is if someone gets it done and lets everyone know wher and when, we'll have our reunion. And by the way does it really matter if we have a big reunion this year or the next? |
| January 22, 2011 03:37:53 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | lori shields |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | i sent the last email |
| January 21, 2011 18:44:26 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | How about Zion National Park? Nice shade trees. A river runs through. If we get group sites, then it would be approx $5 a night per person. The town has lots of cute amenities (for example a small store that makes great sandwiches, lots of h/motels, laundry or shower facilities(out side the park), free bus shuttle that runs through town and the park, A nice community center to rent, dipping holes that only locals know about, bike trails, hiking trails and more.) There is a charge to enter the park. $25 per car or $25 for a group of 9 people for the week. I can send more information about all this if people are interested in Angie Frabasilio or me getting a site. What are the dates again? Booking begins 6 months prior to date of arrival so if we're looking at the end of July, there are about 10 days before we would attempt to get a site (which the ranger said should be easy if we call the first day of 6 months out.) Zion is located 2.5 hour drive from Vegas. |
| January 21, 2011 18:43:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks, Rich! That was our first thought too when we noticed Joshua in July. |
| January 21, 2011 18:08:54 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Joshua Tree Nat.Park July 20th average high temp. 105F. average low 95F. record high 113F. record low a chilly 67F. |
| January 21, 2011 05:34:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | If it's done I will probably go but July in the desert? What about the chldren and elderly? I'm mean were talking 100-115 degrees people? Do the have enough rooms? Because I don't want to camp out in that and I like to camp. |
| January 21, 2011 04:43:53 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Jonnie Dale Lieberman |
| Email: | JonnieDaleataol.com |
| HomePage: | http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=146167292064150 |
| Comments: | Here's the link I was able to get to Great Peace March Facebook Reunion, wishing it were easier to find on my Facebook Page, don't know why it ought to be challenging to find.. |
| January 20, 2011 20:03:52 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.jtrcc.org |
| Comments: | Hey, Y'all, reunion planning continues. Diane and Ida are busy with details. In a nutshell, Joshua Tree Retreat Center seems to be trending as the best option. Tentative dates are July 17 - 24th. The approximate cost is $48/per person/per night for an indoor place and $25/per person/per night for camping. Ida has lots of details on the GPM 25th Reunion Facebook page. To get there, to to the GPM Facebook site and scroll down to "Events." Click on the 25th Reunion and you'll see the discussion thread. Please add your thoughts there (Can you come? Do you like Joshua Tree as an option?) so Ida can move ahead with the plan. She needs to know soon. Pauliene, best wishes for a complete and rapid recovery to you from Berlin. |
| January 20, 2011 04:11:34 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19248698462&v=wall |
| Comments: | That's the link Jonnie. I can only find a second hand reference to the Jtree possibility on the reunion thread though. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. |
| January 19, 2011 23:47:41 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Fred Guerra |
| Email: | fjoe1957 {at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http://http://www.facebook.com/fred.guerra |
| Comments: | Both of US were Original Marchers Fred Guerra (Santa Cruz) Married Mary Dickinson (Blouder,Colo) left March in Omaha to have a baby (Big Mistake..not the baby leaving the March) |
| January 19, 2011 18:42:30 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | jonnie dale lieberman |
| Email: | JonnieDale{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hey everyone, I read back as far as June and most of our conversation has been about our 25th Reunion. On Facebook, I have received postings to check GPM Facebook page, I could not find it. If someone can please kindly pass along the correct and specific website address, that would be awesome, send to my e-address if possible, I rarely check here, jonniedaleataol. I understand Reunion conversation is currently about Joshua Tree. Would love to know more. Gene, if it happens here in Ashland, someone else will be DMAC. I will def attend. Paulien, glad to hear about the goodness of the place where you are, may you find an easy and quick recovery and find your way home to our reunion, where ever we may be. Much love and peace to you all, stay warm n cozy and love the one you are with. |
| January 19, 2011 17:49:31 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hoping that you have a speedy and full recovery Paulien! |
| January 17, 2011 13:51:34 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks for all your good wishes! I'm in revalidation now and I am pleased and impressed with social medicine! It's like a resort, a super gym, heated pool. Got my laptop at my bed-side too! So I am dreaming of getting together with you guys in Carpentaria! See you all in the fall! |
| January 16, 2011 20:31:17 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Well if we're spitballing here let me add my 2 cents. We'll rent the Giants (World Series Champions) Ball park. Huge field for camping, ball field and playground for the kids, concession stands for meals, team locker rooms for showers, great view of San Francisco Bay. |
| January 14, 2011 17:41:44 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Well, if that is what it has come down to – a gathering at the home of James in LA – then I can offer our home for the northern CA Marchers. Our Rossmoor is practically a country club with swimming pools, tennis courts, hiking trails, and even 27 holes of golf. Beautiful meeting rooms and a lovely movie theater in which we can show “Just One Step.” We can probably find friends who will put people up for a couple of nights. But many of our Marchers will live a drive or even a BART train away from here. You made your suggestion, Naneki, in jest (I think; you may be serious). But you sure gave me an idea! I AM serious. Sure, why not? |
| January 13, 2011 16:34:05 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Naneki |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Gene, it seems the reunion has become homeless and no one is talking about it anymore. I'm suggesting anyone interested in reunioning should meet at James Knight's house in L.A. I will bring the punch... |
| January 12, 2011 18:19:14 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | That was neat, Naneki! Thanks. I am asking the same question. And I am wondering whether one has to be on Facebook to learn about reunion plans. |
| January 12, 2011 17:31:21 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Naneki |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hey, where have all the marchers gone long time passin' where have all the marchers gone long time ago...where have all the marchers gone, gone to facebook every one when will they return, oh when will they return!!?? |
| January 11, 2011 23:19:44 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Christopher Bell |
| Email: | justkit{at}earthlink.net |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Just finding this site for the first time. Not very computer savvy. But hey late is better than never, or so we used to say about stragglers. Thank you to all of you and especially to those who host this site. Many blessings and love all around. Peace. Keep up the good work. Chris (Kit) Bell |
| January 10, 2011 22:08:33 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marek |
| Email: | marekp at roadrunner com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I'm sending you a bunch of love, smiles, laughters and hugs, Paulien. We'll have a cup of Coffee at the 25th reunion! Send me an email! (I'll look to see if I still have yours!) |
| January 4, 2011 06:14:15 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | You are in my heart and my thoughts Paulien. |
| December 29, 2010 00:55:38 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Naneki |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Paulien, you are in my thoughts and prayers...blessings for a very health filled New Year and know that we are all sending you healing and love from the Big March Family!! |
| December 28, 2010 23:20:40 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Best wishes from a guy who remembers you very well from the March even though it was 25 years ago! |
| December 27, 2010 16:33:45 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks ever so much T & B!! Any and all wishes and prayers of any kind are ever so welcome right now, chants and songs too! My life has just been turned up-side down and I am not nearly as cool and unflappable as I'd like to be... |
| December 27, 2010 13:36:53 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Barbara |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Paulien, I would be immensly THRILLED to see you at the reunion!!!!!! I am immensly concerned as to your brain issue. I hope you will continue to update us. You know we love you and really want to know how you are doing. We are forever family. |
| December 27, 2010 03:31:33 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Paulien, my thoughts are with you...wishing you the best. |
| December 27, 2010 02:53:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | hi folks, weirdest Xmas ever for me: I find out I need brain surgery!! And in case you are wondering, no waiting list in sight even though I am on a subsidized social health plan. So with my life suddenly taking an unexpected turn once again, with time on my hands, I am thinking maybe Carpentaria... |
| December 26, 2010 20:47:48 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Ted, thank you! It was a wonderful Christmas present and I am happy to keep this site. It does seem that more people are doing Facebook than earlier making this site less relevant, but I am happy to keep it available. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays and Prospero Ano Nuevo a todos! I too am concerned about the reunion plans coming together in time in a way that works for marchers. Anyway, I guess that I will have to have faith. |
| December 25, 2010 17:45:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | We're still here!, we're still here! |
| December 25, 2010 06:46:11 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Gene, the reunion is me, you and Ted here in Cyberspace. Let us chant, We're still here!! |
| December 24, 2010 21:58:47 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Yes, I've been wondering - and worrying - for a long time where everybody is. At this rate it doesn't look we can get THREE people together for our 25th reunion. Will we have one? Has Carpinteria been reserved? |
| December 23, 2010 17:20:37 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Well Helloo! |
| December 23, 2010 08:03:34 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | naneki |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | where the heck is everybody? Hellllloooooooooo...anybody home? |
| December 23, 2010 05:41:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Joe, am dropping $ in the mail today. Am so sorry for flaking after I promised in Sept. of LAST YEAR! (shame). Having this site is important to me, and thank you for keeping it going. |
| December 17, 2010 18:58:59 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Diane Hara |
| Email: | krazy4peace{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hi everyone, Some wanted to know if we are going to reach out to those who are not on Facebook or here. Once we have a site and stable dates, we will send a mailing out to everyone who has given their addresses to Frank Holgrem at peacegeek@hotmail.com. Everyone please update your info with Frank NOW. Love you all, Diane Hara |
| November 15, 2010 22:37:58 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Steven Klein (née Shabtai) |
| Email: | My email address is on my website. |
| HomePage: | http://klein.us/ |
| Comments: | Happy Birthday, Marek. |
| November 5, 2010 02:50:56 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Just sent an email to a friend in the CA Governor's office to see if they can help us with Carpinteria reservations. It's a long shot, but I figured it's worth a try. Hope that's okay with all y'all. |
| October 19, 2010 07:15:45 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Marek where have you been, I do not see any recent posting. Miss all your wonderful insightful comments. |
| October 17, 2010 09:28:12 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | George |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Did anyone think about asking alexandra paul. she was on the march until the first site in nevada. I know she is still active in the peace movement. In case you are wondering who she is, she in Bay Watch and some movies. maybe she can help with the seven thousand dollars. I still think of her as a peace marcher. Another solution ask as many marchers as possible to donate 10 20 50 or 100 dollars, whatever people can afford. |
| October 17, 2010 09:01:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Yeah you! Rich. |
| October 17, 2010 01:30:51 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Someone call Robert Blake or Yoko Ono? or a rich peace marcher. |
| October 16, 2010 23:26:26 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | The cost for reserving group campsites at Carpinteria will be $8,400. We have $700 in seed money for the 25th reunion. Carpinteria requires full payment at the time of reservation (December 1, 2010). Any good ideas how to pull together $7,700 in six weeks? Previous reunion planners, how did you manage? |
| October 15, 2010 16:16:27 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hello, Fellow Marchers, Please post your preference on the GPM 25th Reunion site or here. I need get an idea for how many people intend to stay in a tent at the Carpinteria State Beach and how many intend to stay in nearby hotels. It's not a commitment, just an idea so I have numbers for reserving group camp sites. Thanks so much! Rich, I could use the help of someone who's familiar with the Carpinteria site and the reservation procedures. If you're interested, could you email me? laura.monagan@yahoo.com. Thanks! |
| October 15, 2010 15:25:36 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori Shields |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Laura, you rock! I await further instructions. Your minion, Lori |
| October 11, 2010 18:05:55 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks Again Laura, for your organizing. Just some more thought or questions about reserving those sites. Does it matter wether you phone or are at the park when making those resevations? I know only 2 cars per site are allowed so how many sites? How many campers per site? I remember the north end of the campground have site that are next to the field. Could we use the field for camping? Could we get one site with 300 campers in it? |
| October 10, 2010 17:31:50 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | We had quite a few conversations some months ago about the timing of the reunion. My first suggestion was a YMCA camp that was available in late June, but many GPM'ers, understandably, couldn't make it then because of school obligations. Same for Mid-August through September. (As a school teacher, I'd be pleased to have a family take kids out of school for a GPM reunion - provided they came back to report to the class about it, but I don't think schools operate that way much any more. A loss, if you ask me.) LORI, I'll post more information as the time draws near. (Hopefully I'll have it figured out by then!) |
| October 9, 2010 08:10:17 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Just a thought but we could increase the odds of geting the sites we need by having the reunion in June,August or September I think the third week of September is a long tradition, you say the kids are in school, take them out. When I was a kid our parents would take us out of school to go camping in april or may,it was great. Just a thought. Myself and my brother Marty aka? will be there. |
| October 9, 2010 05:26:56 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lynn S |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hi Laura, Are you sure about that date? I only ask because that is a Sunday. |
| October 6, 2010 02:12:33 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori Shields |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hi Laura, I am game. Can you send more information... like what number to call and which sites to ask for? And which exact dates to ask for? What time do we start calling? (Is there a plan B...like get sites for the following weekend if this weekend is full?) And, do you know their cancellation policy in case we get too many sites? And what is the best way to contact you if some of us should get lucky? |
| October 4, 2010 15:46:21 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | The overwhelming majority of responses were in favor of Carpinteria State Beach located just south of Santa Barbara, CA. California marchers have held their annual reunion there many times and recommend it highly. For those who are not up to camping, you'll find many hotels within walking distance. We will target the last week in July for our reunion. Here's the risk: Reservations for Carpinteria come available on January 2, 2011. On that day, everyone who wants July dates gets on the phone in a mad rush to be first to get through to the reservation desk. From what the park ranger told me, all of the campsites are gone within minutes! For our big group, we would need more than one group site. So, we will need to get organized and join the throngs and hope for a little march magic. Sounds exciting, doesn't it? If we don't get it, of course, we're back to square one for site planning. But if we can get 100 marchers on the phones, we just might pull it off. Y'all game for a gamble? |
| October 3, 2010 06:12:36 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Diane Hara |
| Email: | krazy4peace{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | |
| September 30, 2010 05:48:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Diane Hara |
| Email: | krazy4peace{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http://facebook.com |
| Comments: | Thank you Gene for Porta Potty Duty. Anyone else have any Ideas What you would like to do once to talk to everyone? I would love to put together a Now and Then Project for the Children of the March. Baby Alexa is 25! Harleigh has a sister... Anyway does anyone want to Entertain??? Someone want to coordinate the political beat and issues? If we have a "How the Peace March Changed Us" Project. The Press might be interested. I do not have the exact dates but Laura said the last week in July 2011. I will get back to you soon. Carpenteria is right on the beach with motels and city stuff close by. |
| September 29, 2010 03:47:48 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori Shields |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Carpinteria looks great!! What is the date again? |
| September 28, 2010 18:47:16 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Frank and Lynn Sahlem |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | The Sahlems vote for Carpenteria! |
| September 28, 2010 05:39:07 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Sorry, the lyric reference was a reach... |
| September 27, 2010 04:52:11 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I don't get it Ted. Earth Wind and Fire? |
| September 26, 2010 17:56:15 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | "Do you remember..the 21st day of September" a bit late...but nice Earth,Wind,and Fire reference. |
| September 25, 2010 22:17:08 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | You have it wrong Gene. It was twenty five years ago Seargent Pepper taught the band to play. I couldn't resist. |
| September 25, 2010 21:16:16 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I know it was 25 years ago, but doesn't ANYONE remember? |
| September 24, 2010 16:05:55 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I just saw “The Most Dangerous Man in America: Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers.” Anyone else see it? Wonderful documentary! Dan Ellsberg has been a tremendous peace activist all these years. He joined us on the Great Peace March, spoke to us one day. I can still see him in my mind's eye, but cannot pin down the locale - or even the state! Please tell me where it was if anybody can remember. |
| September 23, 2010 04:55:16 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Bill O |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Naneki, I hear you darlin'. Send me a check and I'll head for the poker table. Then we can have the reunion of our dreams: caviar omelets for breakfast, served on ivory platters, while celebrities fan you with palm fronds. You deserve no less! |
| September 22, 2010 19:47:36 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thank you, Diane, for posting this for discussion. I say we put all our eggs in one basket and go for Carpinteria. (I'll put a similar posting on the Facebook page...) |
| September 22, 2010 17:55:43 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I would prefer Carpinteria State Park. |
| September 20, 2010 22:28:38 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Naneki |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | thanks to all who are working so hard on getting the 25th reunion off the ground! I noticed that Bill O has volunteered to be treasurer for the reunion. I have one thing to say to Bill, Vegas Baby!! California sounds great anywhere near water!! |
| September 20, 2010 14:55:09 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks for your work. I pick Carpenteria. |
| September 19, 2010 06:07:40 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Sign up for a job? Okay, I’ll clean the porta potties again. I’ll write and produce a skit to honor the crew that organizes this reunion. I’ll produce a Shakespeare play. Seriously, I vote for Carpinteria State Beach. We’ve had so many reunions there that the place really is home for many of us. I would go for Crestline; Arrowhead Hot Springs Resort is nearby. But the place is (since 1962) owned by Campus Crusade for Christ, and it looks like they have only Christian Weddings on the place – not open to the likes of us. Yes, Carpinteria will be just fine. No hot spring, darn it, but a cold ocean. Still, Carpinteria is not a strange place but so familiar we’ll be soaking in nostalgia. |
| September 18, 2010 16:59:34 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Diane Hara |
| Email: | krazy4peace{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hello Marchers, Get Up, Get UP. Get Up! I need your input. We are looking for a place to have the reunion. I have three possibilities so far. #1Camp Seely near Crestline California (up in the mountains 2mi from Lake Gregory and 4 miles to Lake Silverwood). 60 cabins, no tent camping, Lodge, Dining Room, and Kitchen. #2Carpinteria State Beach. On the beach with Tent and RV camping. Hotel/Motel options. No kitchen, Use Seeds of Peace?! #3 Silverwood Lake State Park in Hisparia, California. Tent camping, no lodge or cabins. Hotel/motel 5mi away. We are working on approx 200-250 people coming. Please tell me what you want, give me new options to look into. I need to know what kind of march you want to sign up for this time. Comfort? Relaxing? Hiking? Healing? Political? Let me know if you want to take on a project or have ideas. Come on marchers you have to sign up for a job!! hugs and kisses, Diane |
| September 17, 2010 19:33:13 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Michaella Keener |
| Email: | revmichaella{at}gmail.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I have so much to say,but will have to write another day. I had no idea that there is a site to contact dfolks. Next Tues is InterNational PeaceDay and I have been thinking a lot about the March. More later. Michaella (Micki) |
| September 17, 2010 15:52:04 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Cybele Connor |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://cybeleconnor.com |
| Comments: | Howdy, Sonia contact me saying someone on this board was looking for me so here is my contact info. Facebook, cybele Connor, actually could everyone join facebook it would be easier. cybelec@gmail.com or my site cybeleconnor. Talk to you soon so looking forward to 2011. |
| September 3, 2010 18:15:27 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | John Pluntze |
| Email: | writestuffidaho{at}gmail.com |
| HomePage: | http://www.SunValleyOnline.com |
| Comments: | Hi, everyone!! John Pluntze here in Ketchum, Idaho. Hope I get a chance to correspond with at least SOME of you in the coming weeks and months -- either at WriteStuffIdaho@gmail.com or at writestuff2001@webtv.net Having a blast here in Idaho and getting lots of writing done at http://www.SunValleyOnline.com (type "Music Rules" into the SVO search engine to see what I've written lately). All the best.... :) --John Pluntze |
| August 25, 2010 14:20:47 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hello, California Marchers, Diane Harris Hara has very kindly agreed to pull together a group of California folks to pick up the local reunion organizing. If you are in the LA/Santa Barbara area and can help, please let her know. She is on facebook. |
| August 23, 2010 14:06:50 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | June and I just returned from our annual trip to Ashland where this year we saw six plays. “Hamlet” is in a different dimension altogether. Never before have I seen such a phenomenal production. And “Henry IV, Part One” is also out of this world. Jonnie is very lucky to live in that great city. She has seen nine of the eleven plays so far this season including all four of the Shakespeare productions. Anyway, we camped in our tent just a tiny bit bigger than our old Peace March tents (who still has his/hers after all these years?). We camped at Wellsprings, the place where we had a tremendous GPM reunion some years back. Walking around back where we set up our Peace Village in July of 2004, I was struck with nostalgia and also caressed with a blissful thought: how glorious would be our 25th reunion if we could have it again at this very same fabulous place! Jonnie would not do the (very hard) organizing work this time around. But who is able to do it anywhere else? Well, just a wish.. |
| August 22, 2010 04:18:29 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Diane Hara |
| Email: | krazy4peace{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Need local help (Los Angeles Area) to prepare for 2011 reunion, our 25th Silver Anniversary! Please email me at krazy4peace@aol.com and let me know how I can get a hold of you. Thanks ahead. Love ya, Diane |
| August 10, 2010 05:01:09 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rod Grasmick |
| Email: | rodzylla{at}hotmail.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Could not sleep and randomly thought about the GPM for the first time in AGES! What sweet memories. Did I see the name of Cybele further on down? |
| August 2, 2010 05:09:35 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | As the 25th reunion approaches, it's time to update the Silver Thread. Whether you plan to attend the reunion or not, please send your current email address to Frank Holgrem who has very generously agreed to update our list. Here is his email address: Peacegeek@hotmail.com A BIG THANK YOU TO FRANK! THANK YOU TO SONIA COTA-ROBLES FOR COORDINATING WITH HIM! |
| July 29, 2010 19:21:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Sorry, that should read "first WEEK of August..." |
| July 23, 2010 03:55:50 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I just posted an "Event" on the Great Peace March facebook for the 25th reunion. We still don't have a precise location or dates, but we're aiming at somewhere in the Los Angeles/Santa Barbara area in July or the first month of August 2011. Please go to facebook and post whether you plan to attend. Thank you kindly! |
| July 23, 2010 03:54:37 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hello, Lynn, Thank you so much for your feedback. This is very helpful. Carpenteria is on the short list, but, as you say, difficult to reserve as it's very popular. Having amenities nearby is important; several people have mentioned that. And, the fact that there are motels nearby is great, too. From your suggestion, I'll take Lake Casitas off the list and keep Carpenteria as a strong possibility. Thanks, Lynn! |
| July 23, 2010 03:50:20 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lynn S |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hi Laura, Carpenteria has been the location of most of the California reunions over the years and is a fantastic place, but so popular that it is difficult to get the space and might be impossible to get enough room. Otherwise it is perfect with grocery stores and cafes in an easy walk and motels nearby for those of us who are not tenting any more. Lake Casitas doesn't have swimming but during the summers have a great water feature--a "river" that you can ride inner tubes down and is a lot of fun. It is near to Ojai but not walking distance from amything, so there is only the camp store and cafe at the lake for those who need them. I hope this helps! |
| July 23, 2010 01:13:28 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Looks like we'll be able to get ground transportation from LAX (Los Angeles International Airport) to either the Santa Barbara area or the San Bernardino/Big Bear area for about $50-60/person each way, including gratuity. It's about 2 - 2 1/2 hours each way, depending on traffic. Still don't have a campsite, but other things are falling into place. |
| July 22, 2010 08:45:53 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hello, Rich, A quick question and a request... I looked at Lake Casitas (online) for a possible reunion site, but the information I found says there is no swimming allowed in the lake. Do you know if that's correct? And, the request... If you are familiar with Carpinteria State Beach, El Capitan State Beach, or Refugio State Beach, could you give me some feedback on whether these would be good sites for our 25th reunion? That would be so, so helpful to me. Thank you! Anyone else who's familiar with these sites, please chime in! |
| July 22, 2010 07:56:42 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Rich Sickler |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Any one intersted in a reunion this year? Say at Lake Casitas. Say the weekend of September 25th. one day or two? one campsite or two? |
| July 22, 2010 01:28:36 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hello, CALIFORNIA GPM'ers. I'm looking for some local California marchers to form a 25th reunion affinity group (25th RAG?) to do some of the tasks I can't do from afar. The two tasks that are imminent are: 1) to make site visits to Serrano Campground, Silverwood Lake State Recreation Area, Carpinteria State Beach, and El Capitan State Beach to see which are appropriate to our needs. (Or, perhaps you are already familiar with these sites?) All of these campgrounds are with about two hours of L.A. (depending on traffic). 2) to be on hand to coordinate with Bill O'Neill to make the group reservation. The reason is that a California resident can make the reservation three months earlier than a non-resident can, and these campgrounds fill very quickly. For Serrano and Silverwood Lake we would need a Los Angeles resident, possibly more than one, to make the calls (and be able to prove residency). Anybody game? |
| July 21, 2010 05:04:40 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Pease join me in sending a huge thank you to Cybele Connor for volunteering to take on the meal planning for the 25th reunion. She (we) will need a crew of volunteers, so if you are interested in preparing and serving meals during the reunion, please let her know. Thank you, Cybele! |
| July 18, 2010 16:21:47 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I’m happy to announce that Bill O’Neill has very kindly agreed to serve as treasurer for the reunion. Please join me in thanking him for offering to handle money matters for us! Thank you, Bill! |
| July 18, 2010 07:00:19 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Pease join me in sending a huge thank you to Cybele Connor for volunteering to take on the meal planning for the 25th reunion. She (we) will need a crew of volunteers, so if you are interested in preparing and serving meals during the reunion, please let her know. Thank you, Cybele! |
| July 18, 2010 06:53:32 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.reserveamerica.com/camping/Dogwood_Ca/r/campgroundDetails.do?contractCode=NRSO&parkId=702 |
| Comments: | ...and here's the link for Dogwood near Lake Arrowhead. |
| July 10, 2010 11:52:01 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.reserveamerica.com/camping/Serrano_Ca/r/campgroundDetails.do?contractCode=NRSO&parkId=705 |
| Comments: | Here's the link for Serrano on Big Bear Lake. |
| July 10, 2010 11:50:29 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.reserveamerica.com/camping/Silverwood_Lake_Sra/r/campgroundDetails.do?contractCode=CA&par |
| Comments: | Here's the link for Silverwood Lake State Recreation Area. |
| July 10, 2010 11:48:55 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | READ THIS LAST... and the third one, read it second, of course! (Sorry!) (The two camps I was most excited about, one run by the Unitarian Universalists and the another called Pilgrim Pines, couldn’t take us but promised to keep a lookout for cancellations in July, so let’s “om” for a march miracle.) These camps can’t be booked until 6-9 months in advance anyway, so we have a little more time to think about other options. So, have a looksee and post your thoughts here or on the GPM Facebook site. |
| July 10, 2010 11:45:56 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | However, if we really want to meet in the LA area, I’m thinking we could book tent sites at one of these three camps (see links). Serrano is on the north shore of Big Bear Lake; Dogwood is on Lake Arrowhead; and Silverwood Lake State Recreation Area is on Silverwood Lake. Here are their advantages: 1) located near a town (for shopping and in case some people would rather stay in hotels and re-une during the day) 2) Plenty of sites for tent camping and rvs. 3) High above L.A. in the mountains for smog-free, cool summer camping. 4) Inexpensive 5) Lakes nearby for splashing. (Someone asked for this amenity; I agree!) Here are their disadvantages: 1) We’d have to rent cars or vans at the airport to get folks there. 2) No built-in amenities like meals or meeting hall; everyone would be responsible for his/her own meals. 3) Not guaranteed; we’d have to coordinate calling to reserve enough sites for all of us. (CONTINUED>>>) |
| July 10, 2010 11:41:43 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | angie frabasilio |
| Email: | angiefrab{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | If California is the place... I and three boys will be there. |
| July 8, 2010 20:25:27 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thank you, Barbara, for your help in finding seed money. That would be a huge help. I'll keep Camp Oso in mind if neither of the other two options works out. People seem to want to be close to LA, where it all started. Good luck with your transition. |
| July 7, 2010 15:09:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Barbara |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | How about Camp Oso in the Santa Barbara mountains? They have cabins, wagon tents, rv's,rv space, and tent space. I don't know the cost or booking situation and I am in a huge personal transition right now so I can't help much. You can find it on the internet. |
| July 7, 2010 13:27:17 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Barbara |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I believe it has been a tradition that the California reunion group loans some seed money to the big reunions. I now manage the books and the $ for that group. Coleen passed it on to me a couple of years back. I will talk with some of the group and ask for opinions about assisting with the initial reservation costs. It isn't a huge ammount, and it will need to be repaid, but it can take the presure off of personal bank accounts. I am digging through the file and not finding the records. I'll get back to you. |
| July 7, 2010 13:23:11 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Update: Still working on reunion sites. I'll have more to report at the end of this week. (For those who have been following this thread, Camp Whittle is out because of incompatible dates, but I'm working two other viable leads.) NEEDED: PEACE MARCHER WHO'S GOOD WITH MONEY MATTERS TO OPEN A GPM 2011 REUNION ACCOUNT, TAKE IN MARCHER DEPOSITS, AND MAKE THE NECESSARY PAYMENTS TO THE CAMP. Several people have offered to help with the reunion This is an aspect that is NOT my forte. Please step up if you are good at money matters and willing to help. (The unethical need not apply.) |
| July 7, 2010 07:24:58 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Barbara, are you still doing Service Learning? I need input. You know my work - I would like to explore the possibility of implementing such a program. Websites you can recommend, books I could order, articles you could mail me pgeitenbeek at hotmail.com would be very welcome indeed. Hope all is well with you guys. How's Matthew? |
| July 4, 2010 16:01:15 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Jani, I'm sorry a July reunion will not be optimal for everyone in your family, but it seems to be the direction we're headed in. Just wanted to let you know your preferences were not unheard. |
| July 3, 2010 07:22:53 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Update: I'm still working with the Camp Whittle folks to see about a date in July, but in the meantime, I've found two large campsites in the San Bernardino National Forest that would be good alternatives. They are both in the general vicinity of Camp Whittle. I'll post more information at the end of next week. Your feedback has been tremendously helpful. |
| July 3, 2010 07:20:20 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I hear many concerns about the June dates being too early and the August dates being too late, so I'm looking into other places that can take us in July or early August. : ) |
| July 2, 2010 05:00:08 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Bob Alei |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | This Bob (the moving one) would most likely be a party of 4 (it is hard to know what our then 18 yr old daughter Justine will be up to). We would be more likely to all make it if it is between June 5 ish and Aug 15 ish....the basic school year summer. |
| July 1, 2010 23:00:41 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Jani Wanner McWilliams |
| Email: | dougjani{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hi Laura and all, It sound like we're moving toward a date, and my answer to your question revolves around the date chosen. We are primarily a family of 3 these days. Arden (23 yrs.)is getting married to Amber this Oct., and River(20 yrs.) will be a jr. at the Univ. @ Buffalo. Al boys/men play baseball in the summer, and could only come in Aug., althoug if Arden is still playing professionally, he'll not be available until after the post season. River will have a small break in Aug. 10th-16th ish, before heading back to school. Canyon (12 yrs.) will be coming with Doug & I if it is not in June. So, the Wanner McWilliams clan is probably 3, but maybe only 2, we'll know closer to the date. :) Thanks, Jani |
| July 1, 2010 21:15:37 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Bob Frisbee |
| Email: | bfrisbee5{at}juno.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I am not sure what to write here. |
| July 1, 2010 07:52:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | JD Stillwater |
| Email: | jdstillwater{at}gmail.com |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | Sorry. You are seeking a commitment for Camp Whittle. Count two of us Stillwaters as in for the later June dates, whether a weekend or full week. |
| June 30, 2010 22:13:39 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | JD Stillwater |
| Email: | jdstillwater{at}gmail.com |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | As noted on FB, Ann and I will come in 2011, no matter where it is held, provided it is between June 10 and about August 10. |
| June 30, 2010 22:02:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ben Atherton-Zeman |
| Email: | benazeman{at}hotmail.com |
| HomePage: | http://www.voicesofmen.org |
| Comments: | Laura, thanks so much for this! Many of us have been talking on Facebook about a 25th reunion for years now - all that was missing was someone to say, "I'll do it!" We've had plenty of suggestions for places (Cleveland being the recent favorite), but I think the consensus seemed to be that we'd all try to flock to wherever it's held. The one gaping hole was someone willing to step forward and organize it - are you that someone? If so, how can we support you? |
| June 30, 2010 15:01:33 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori Shields |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Oh duh, You mean Bob's move! Santa Fe is beautiful! Congratulations scoring a job there Bob! |
| June 30, 2010 13:35:30 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori Shields |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | It appears that people might be available in August more than March or April. And August is a very bad month to hang out in Zion. I am thinking that any old weekend can be extended by a couple days so that people could come Spring, Summer or Fall. If it were not around a holiday, it might even be easier for some folks. (possibly lower plane fare, fewer family engagements etc.) The location of the YMCA camp might be a lot easier for people to come to. And if no one else, a site in California would be loaded with Californians. (We can only promise to deliver about 5 Utahans to Zion.) |
| June 30, 2010 13:30:22 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori Shields |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I am not moving. Or maybe I misunderstood the comment.? Anyway. I looked up that string of information I wrote and I guess we had done our research. There were 5 Utahans and one Nebraskan and family members who showed up for that mini-reunion. We had a great time! Hence the reason we go back every Spring. I think it might have been too hard for most folks to get to. Those who wanted to camp would have had to fly their tents to Vegas then drive to Zion. By nature I am pretty lazy and one of the things I like about the Zion location is that each person can customize their own facilities and meals according to their own needs. Make their own arrangements and do their own research on the area. This takes the load off of someone trying to organize this crazy herd of cats. The only up-front money would be reserving a group site. www.nps.gov/zion/ and http://www.zionpark.com/ are the two web sites I might start with if I were looking into Zion. |
| June 30, 2010 13:10:05 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Okay, Lynn, Bob and Jani, I've got you down, but Bob and Jani, how many are in your parties? |
| June 30, 2010 05:20:50 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.zioncamp.com/index.html |
| Comments: | Lori, I re-read your thread about Zion. There seemed to be a lot of people interested in having our reunion there Is this (link) the area you went to? It looks beautiful. I checked a random sampling of school calendars, and it looks like April 16-24, 2011 is the most common spring break. It also looks like that would be a good week at Zion in terms of weather. Please let me know if this is the place and I'll post it on the GPM fb as a possibility. And good luck with your upcoming move! |
| June 30, 2010 05:04:00 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori Shields |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Tom (Thumb) Gardener wanted me to let you know that he is not able to come to a reunion the last half of June. I will do my best to come whenever and where ever it is. My kid's schools schedule is not that important since we would be coming for an extended weekend only. A few days missed from school is not a big deal with us. I had looked into the Zion site a year or more ago and posted my findings on this web site. It is a doable place. Lots of hotels, or people could camp in the park, a small town where Angie said she may be able to score the community center for a few days for us to gather. A 2 1/2 hour drive from Los Vegas. It is too hot from the end of May through the end of September. A charming town, and a beautiful park to hike or bike in. Free shuttle service to and through the park... although there is an entrance fee. We have been going there every Spring for the past four years so Laura's site is my first pick since I've never been there. |
| June 29, 2010 18:24:43 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Jani Wanner McWilliams |
| Email: | dougjani{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hey all! I like te YMCA camp idea, late Aug. works better than June due to baseball, but it is virtually a year round sport around here. Thanks for all of the checking/research! I'm excited! |
| June 29, 2010 18:22:49 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Bob Alei |
| Email: | bobalei at yahoo |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks Lori Shields for sending emails out to those of us who don't check this page much. We'd *love* to be at the reunion! And thank you Laura for working on this. Late August is late for us since school starts around the 15th. But if that's the date that works for people, we'll make a go of it. In other news, we're moving to Santa Fe! I got a job teaching at a small charter school there and since it's near home we figured it's a good time to move. I'll update when we have an address. ...and see you all at the reunion! |
| June 29, 2010 15:29:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lynn S |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hi Laura--We are the Sahlems. Frank is the marcher but I've been to most of the reunions. :) |
| June 29, 2010 06:36:29 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thank you for your reply, Bryan! I'll put you two down with no preference for dates. Please spread the word to your GPM friends. |
| June 28, 2010 14:47:19 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Bryan Fulton |
| Email: | rpcvslowone{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Laura, Sonia Cota-Robles and I are sure to be at any 25th GPM reunion in the Los Angeles area, no matter where it is held, because LA is less than a daze drive from our home in Tucson, AZ. |
| June 28, 2010 03:48:39 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Colin |
| Email: | ttanews{at}hotmail.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hey, nice to see that people are trying to get together. I was the guy on the gate with security wearing the plaid robe and white floppy hat. I also taught "tent training" when folks first showed up to the march in Van Nuys (I think it was Van Nuys). |
| June 27, 2010 15:39:45 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Sorry, Lynn, what's your last name? |
| June 27, 2010 07:07:07 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Okay, Lynn, glad to hear this will be a good site for you. Yes, forest fires seem to be a possibility at that time of year. Otherwise, August in Big Bear means we shouldn't be bothered by rain. I'll sign you and Frank up for two spots. Please spread the word! |
| June 27, 2010 06:59:44 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lynn S |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks, Laura, I think the trees up that far should help. As long as there are no forest fires! ;-) August would work best for us since Frank has most of it off most years. Don't know if it would be more than two of us as Crystal will be 17 and may or may not want to come. |
| June 26, 2010 20:41:10 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=rim+of+the+world+fawnskin,+ca+map&oe=UTF-8&um= |
| Comments: | Hello, Lynn, Here's a link to a google map showing the location of the camp. I don't know about smog there, but my brother has visited the area many times and says it's very beautiful. |
| June 26, 2010 05:27:33 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lynn S |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Any clue where this place is?! Their website doesn't seem to have any map or even a link to a map. Hard to know if I could breathe there or not (polution is very hard on asthma) and most of California east of LA is pretty impossible for me to be. My asthma is worse every year. |
| June 26, 2010 02:37:24 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | laura.monagan{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Just heard from the folks at Camp Whittle, the YMCA camp near Los Angeles (see video I posted earlier), and they said they can offer us August 22-25 as alternatives to the earlier June dates. If this works for you, please let me know as soon as possible, along with the number of people in your party. I'll need a commitment of about 80-100 people to go ahead with this location. I need to get back to her in the next ten days or so. (Joe and Lori, do these August dates also work for you?) Thanks! |
| June 25, 2010 18:29:19 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I'm happy so many people are starting to talk about the reunion. To me, the YMCA of the Rockies was ideal because of the choice of housing (from ground tents to dorms to a fancy lodge), the reasonable cost, the on-site meals, and the range of activities for every age group. It would be nice to camp at a site where we camped on the GPM, but I've yet to find one that really serves our reunion needs. (We were largely self-sufficient back in 1986!) The main point is, if you have a proposal in mind, please do a little research first to see if the place is really appropriate to our needs before putting it out there for consideration. Post a few details with your proposal: distance from the nearest major airport, cost per person, amenities, facilities for preparing food, and the type of housing/camping. I don't mind looking into suggestions, but I don't have time (or the inclination) to research each one from scratch. Cabo San Lucas? Tell me more! |
| June 25, 2010 18:18:59 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Yes, Cabo San Lucas...although Cabo, Tenn. might be nice in the spring too. |
| June 25, 2010 15:38:56 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I just so appreciate that Laura is looking up possibilities. I think Cabo sounds great too. Does Cabo (Ted, you did mean Cabo San Lucas right?) have fewer mosquitoes? (I hate bug repellent almost as much as I hate mosquitoes.) |
| June 25, 2010 04:39:58 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Barbara |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | If this is the way we go then I vote for the later date. We will still be in school until the 9th. As a teacher I have work for a few more days after that. I would probably come alone. |
| June 25, 2010 02:45:38 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Then I propose Cabo !? |
| June 25, 2010 02:12:16 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lori Shields |
| Email: | lshields{at}xmission.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I think Laura's site looks beautiful. I am also thinking, "you can never go home", so returning to a site we stayed at before could be nice but it would not be the same as it was anyway. (Also consider Zion Park in Southern Utah around Easter break. (No bugs.) Angie and Logan might be able to look into that.) If you are looking for a weekend commitment for the California site, you have one (maybe 4) from me. Either weekend will work for me (us) but we might get more takers if it is the later one since some kids get out of school later. Only 79-99 commitments to go! Thank you for looking into it Laura! |
| June 25, 2010 00:30:30 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Gotta say, I'm inclined towards a campsite that we stayed at on the March... |
| June 24, 2010 02:37:41 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Barbara |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Where is it? |
| June 24, 2010 00:47:36 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | We can get this camp (link in earlier posting) for GPM 25th reunion next summer EITHER the weekend of June 10,11,12 OR the week of June 13-17. Cost: $90/person for the weekend or $158/person for the week. Includes lodging, four meals, and activities (archery, arts and crafts, hayride, nature house, hiking; swimming pool MIGHT be available but not guaranteed). Located approximately 2 1/2 hours from LAX, depending on LA traffic. I need a commitment from 80-100 people in the next ten days. Please send preferred dates and number of people in your group. Please keep your message simple and clear: just the dates and number of people. Thanks. |
| June 23, 2010 21:13:37 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Barbara |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Glen Helen is 72 miles from LAX |
| June 23, 2010 20:38:14 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwTs5MhL_X4 |
| Comments: | This is where I want to meet for our 25th reunion. : ) |
| June 23, 2010 15:28:09 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | www.co.san-bernardino.ca.us/parks/glen_helen/glen_helen.aspx |
| Comments: | Is Glen Helen too far from LAX? |
| June 23, 2010 13:47:17 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | There seems to be more enthusiasm for a reunion in California reunion than for one in Cleveland. I like the idea of going back to our starting point. Joe, I'm totally willing to organize in any way I can from my laptop in Berlin. |
| June 23, 2010 13:31:57 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Barbara |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Yes i've been here for 11 years. I am straight across from the Bay Area. So if San Fran is northern then I am northern. I am in the mountains above the Central Valley so maybe that makes me more central. OK, I will settle for the Central Sierra's. What I do know is that it is beautiful here. |
| June 21, 2010 04:59:52 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | That's not northern CA! I though you had moved up to the Bay Area or even beyond. Haven't you been in the Sierras near Yosemite for a long, long time? |
| June 21, 2010 01:36:49 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Barbara |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | In the Sierras. Just outside of Yosemite. |
| June 19, 2010 16:14:16 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Barbara! You live in Northern California now? Where? |
| June 19, 2010 15:26:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Barbara |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.yelp.com/biz/santa-fe-dam-recreation-area-baldwin-park |
| Comments: | Here is a link to an opinion page about Santa Fe Dam. I am vary familiar with the facility from the years I lived in LA. I ran, biked, and rode horses there. It has been developed to a far greater extent with a water play park and more trails. One draw back is the isolation from stores and resturants, at least it used to be in an industrial area. That may have changed. It has one very important asset that seems to matter at reunions, water we can immerse ourselves in. I will look into some of the other aspects. Don't expect me to organize the reunion from where I live in Northern CA but I will do some research. |
| June 19, 2010 06:39:20 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I know you feel my pain brother! A reunion in California would be better anyway. There are good reasons that we left the rust belt. |
| June 17, 2010 23:32:33 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM |
| Comments: | Another excuse to share the above video, Joe! |
| June 17, 2010 23:04:50 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | To be in Griffith Park where it all began and see each other 25 years later would be awesome! Second choice (for me) would be Claremont. |
| June 17, 2010 14:48:07 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | The same thing that happened to Detroit! |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | James, let me tell you what happened to Cleveland. When I was born there in 1959 the population of Cleveland was about 1,000,000 and now it is estimated to be about 350,000. The river burned. The heavy industrial base closed up and moved away eliminating most of the good paying blue collar jobs. The young whites fled to the suburbs. The old ethnic whites died. The federal government gave up on urban areas in the rust belt. Oh, and the sports teams have not won a championship since the early 1960's. But hey, the Rock and Roll Museum is there and housing is cheap! And yet something tells me that I am not really answering your question. So to take it a step further, it does not seem that the 25th reunion will be in Cleveland as there is not enough organizing interest. |
| June 17, 2010 12:28:00 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Santa Fe Dam was a lovely site. What happened to Cleveland? |
| June 16, 2010 18:46:19 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Cybele |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Well it seems like for the 25th it really needs to be in Cali, where it all began, how about Claremont, we could camp at Snoop Doggs |
| June 16, 2010 12:55:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | And the campground is a very different place than where we camped on the march, which was basically an open field below the carousel. |
| June 14, 2010 18:38:10 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Ahhh, Griffith Park...'cause I missed that little cough. |
| June 9, 2010 16:05:40 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Cybele, I am so sorry that you lost your job. I hope that college is great for you. |
| June 9, 2010 14:02:51 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | www.laparks.org/dos/camps/hollywoodland/pdf/rentalpk.pdf |
| Comments: | Cybele, here is the link to the campsite at Griffith Park. It states that they can only take up to 180 people, but maybe that is negotiable if some are in tents. |
| June 9, 2010 03:48:33 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Cybele |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Well I am getting laid off by my company and going back to college, (I am 21 again) So I will be available to head up another kitchen at the 25th Reunion. Where is it? I really hope Griffith Park it seems so appropriate. |
| June 8, 2010 20:41:31 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Sometimes a typo is just a typo - other times..... |
| May 26, 2010 11:21:46 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Great Peace Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Love you too, Joe, and look forward to talking with you. I found the fb page and posted there. |
| May 26, 2010 02:34:42 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | So sorry to hear about Paul. There is a GPM Facebook page, but I am not sure how to get there - perhaps you just search for Great Peace Marc. This makes me realize that I need to call you up and connect Marc. I will do so soon and love you very much. Hope all is well. |
| May 25, 2010 11:55:13 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Marc |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | sad news |
| Comments: | We have lost another marcher. Paul Loumena, husband of Alex (White) Loumena passed away of a heart attack last week. Paul was 57. He is survived by Alex and their daughter Danielle. Paul and Alex lived in Oakland for a number of years and I came to know Paul pretty well. We were in a writers' group together. Paul was an absolutely lovely person, a joy to be around, a beautiful man. Is there a GPM yahoo group, through which this announcement can be disseminated? Thanks. Peace to all. |
| May 24, 2010 21:39:11 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/19/syria-israel-bloggers-online-peace |
| Comments: | Found an interesting article in a British newspaper today about peace efforts in cyber space. www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/19/syria-israel-bloggers-online-peace |
| May 19, 2010 09:04:00 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Laura, if you are up for it then we will find out if we can organize the reunion. Really, I have no doubt about it. We have many marchers who can help us. We have a lot of experience and knowledge to rely on. We have the do-it-yourself spirit of the GPM itself to guide us. My family and I are moving back to Colorado on July 7th. My mother, sister and one brother are still in the Cleveland area where I partially grew up. I have no doubt that we can do it, if you have the desire and energy. Think about it and let me know. It is no problem either way. If we do not do organize the reunion, then I imagine that someone else will. |
| May 16, 2010 14:16:26 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Do you think we can plan a reunion in Cleveland from Costa Rica and Berlin? |
| May 15, 2010 22:09:56 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | Eight weeks left in Costa Rica |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Time for me to reread the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution and maybe The Federalist Papers and Howard Zinn too. Down here in Costa Rica, it seems to me that the colonial mindset is very close to the surface and especially so with a particularly unconscious segment of the Costa Rican economic elite and US expats who live here. Central America has been colonized twice - once by the Spain and once by the US corporate/military power. It all has me thinking hard about my own colonial mindset - nurtured from birth. It also has me thinking hard about the upside of the experiment that is the United States and how to manifest that with my own actions. Did you think about the Cleveland offer, Laura? |
| May 13, 2010 19:42:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Paulien, I'm interested in your question re: the relationship between the EU constitution and the Articles of Confederation. The latter was a document with virtually no decision-making power. All sovereignty after US independence lay with the individual states. They coined their own currency, drafted their own laws, and established what amounted to national boundaries between the states. In effect, we had thirteen little nations. Those who espoused the Iroquois model hoped that the thirteen states could come together as the Iroquois tribes had, in times of need or emergency. But the economic upheaval after the war put the hope of a true confederation in jeopardy. It was Sheas (apostrophe) Rebellion that finally convinced the leaders of several states to call the convention to revise the Articles. Technically, I guess there couldn't have been a civil war because the states were not really a nation. The EU is already more aligned than the states were under the AofC. |
| May 13, 2010 15:39:53 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Those are interesting questions. Joe, your questions remind me of that medieval woodcut of the man reaching through the celestial sphere. With the staunch federalists like Madison at one end of the spectrum and the radical anti-federalists like Patrick Henry at the other, it is hard to make generalizations about the whole set of them. (Henry refused to attend the Philadelphia convention; Madison had his Virginia Plan all written up before he even arrived.) However, I think you are right to say that they were of a colonial mindset. How could they not have been? It was their milieu. At the same time, they struggled to push through to an Enlightenment vision of liberty, even if it was just for a tiny elite minority. To them it must have seemed like an enormous wave of change. So, I would agree that the document reflects both a colonial mindset and a visionary one. |
| May 13, 2010 15:25:30 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Alex, I assume you are writing about Just One Step, Cathy Zheutlin's documentary about the GPM for GND? If so thanks, I had a small part in shaping that project and never tire of watching it. |
| May 10, 2010 04:22:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Axel Mainzer Koenig |
| Email: | dspace21{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Even over 20 years after its creation, this documentary is emotional and shows a true conviction from the very beginning. The realism, that was captured, let the viewer be part of this experience whether they were actually participating in this peace march. This documentary also should be seen in schools around the country today, since it shows courage and how to practice democratic value in a peaceful manor. |
| May 10, 2010 00:37:44 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Fascinating discussion. Say Laura, do you think if the US had kept to those Articles of Confederation it could have prevented the Civil War? I see a lot of parallels with the forming of the European Union, so far the drafted constitution keeps getting voted down, but as there's so much economic turmoil here right now and we find ourselves more than just a little apprehensive about having to downsize our standard of living, I really worry about the political decisions being made in Brussels right now. They will effect not just our lives, but future generations as well, for many decades, even centuries. When you give power away, it is hard to get it back. |
| May 8, 2010 06:15:52 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | So if you think it appropriate Laura, how would you characterize the US constitution as a colonial document and as a visionary document? By the way, have you given up on organizing a 25th reunion in Cleveland next year? If you are still interested, I will help and we can make it happen. |
| May 4, 2010 21:28:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | The US Constitution is near and dear to my heart. I grew up in a political family near DC, and government was an ongoing topic of conversation in my house. After the peace march, I spent eighteen years teaching 8th grade students about US history, including the Declaration and Independence, the Articles of Confederation and the US Constitution. With regard to the Iroquois influence, it was the concept of a confederation that Franklin and others borrowed. Few people realize how the States floundered under the Articles of Confederation and what turmoil ensued following independence from Britain. It was the economic and social upheaval that finally led to the convention in Philadelphia where the Articles were tossed aside and the US Constitution, with its power shift to a centralized government, was born. I often wonder how we would have evolved if we had survived the upheaval and learn to function as a confederation of free states rather than putting stock in a federal system. |
| May 4, 2010 08:40:31 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Evan thanks for the heads up on the Iroquois constitution. I had forgotten about that influence on the US constitution. I will look it up and read it over. I have a Spanish language class on Wednesday with my teacher and we have been talking about the US constitution and colonization in the US in comparison to Costa Rica. Es muy interesante. |
| May 3, 2010 12:56:23 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Evan |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.indigenouspeople.net/iroqcon.htm |
| Comments: | Very nice post, Joe. Your quest sounds fascinating, and resonates with me. Just to add trivia as I always tend to, one of the most overlooked sources for our constitution (but a VERY important one, in my opinion) was the Iroquois compact. Governing the five Iroquois tribes across America, it was a brilliant agreement, and I applaud Jefferson and others for learning from it. I mention it as the only non-colonial source of which I am aware. On the Peace March, we drew from its traditions, whether we knew it or not. |
| May 3, 2010 01:23:01 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | It must be the new reading glasses. |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | There are a few life-themes that I have been exploring a lot recently. The first is the need to decolonize my own mind/heart/body. The founders of the USA were aristocratic colonists. While the constitution that they created came from that elite colonial mindset, it contains idealistic and visionary goals that can lift up humanity. It seems to me that the history of the USA is that we strive towards those goals while being dragged backwards by the mindset. How does my own mindset drag my back? The second is cultivating and rejoicing in simple companionship. The third is my own mortality. As I age and approach the end of my life, I value my loved ones more and more. That includes peace marchers of all stripes. How can I love more and judge less? How can I make the most of my remaining years? |
| May 2, 2010 14:31:07 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thank you Shanawa. There is no too late. |
| April 30, 2010 21:33:27 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks Laura. Joe Kinczel POB 1754 Nederland CO 80466 |
| April 27, 2010 17:36:34 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hello, Joe, Thank you so much for working all of that out. Would you please post your p.o. address again so I can donate? Thanks! |
| April 27, 2010 16:42:47 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | The site and domain name renewal will be automatic and done on my credit card. The hosting company also has my email address and phone number in case they need to communicate. The hosting company had my old credit card info along with Julia Ziobro's contact info which was why I was being charged and she was being contacted. That is all corrected now. |
| April 27, 2010 15:05:23 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | In order to keep this site up and running without interruption I just renewed the hosting with the mysite/50megs hosting company. I paid a total of $72.48. This includes an overdue amount from March 1st 2010 till today for $13.08 and a new yearly fee of $59.40. We will now be paying $59.40 per year which is a reduction from last year and are paid through April 27, 2011 ($13.08 + 59.40). The domain registration is also good until March 21, 2011 and after that will cost $49.75 for 5 years. This does not prevent us from moving the site if we want to, though the reduction in cost puts the hosting fee for this site in line with other hosting companies that have been investigated. |
| April 27, 2010 15:03:16 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lynn & Frank |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Oh yes, one more thing, would someone who is into all of that stuff please post this on facebook. I know the facebook exists but. . . Thanks!! |
| April 27, 2010 01:31:37 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lynn & Frank |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Continuation! To Vote for ECHS Online Go To: www.whitehouse.gov/commencement Watch the 3-minute student-created videos online Rate each school on a scale from 1 to 5 A “5” goes to the school that best meets the President’s Race To the Top Commencement Challenge goals – providing an education where every student graduates college and career ready. We Think You Will Rate Environmental Charter High School a "5"! 97 % of our students graduate college ready – in a state where the public school average is 32%. Vote for California’s only finalist! Vote for the only Green school! Thanks for Your Support. With Your Help We Will Bring President Obama to ECHS! |
| April 27, 2010 01:08:33 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Lynn & Frank |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hi All! As some of you know Crystal goes to Environmental Charter High School and they are in a contest so we need your help! We’re in the Top 6! Vote Now To Bring President Obama to Our Graduation. The White House and the Department of Education recently named Environmental Charter School (ECHS) as a finalist in a nationwide competition - for exemplifying the president’s 2020 goal that every high school student will graduate college ready. From more than 1,000 applicants, ECHS is one of just 6 finalists selected to compete in a run-off voting contest to have the President deliver its 2010 commencement address. We Need Your Vote To Reach The Final Three! www.whitehouse.gov/commencement. More to follow!!! |
| April 27, 2010 01:04:56 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | 1. Just Days to Stop Food Fascism! UPDATE: S.510 did not make it to the floor of the Senate this week! Your continued PUSH BACK is still holding it off. Please read below and TAKE THE ACTION ITEM AGAIN! We must innudate the Senate with emails to stop this travesty! Rumor in DC is that the forced-industrialization of food production bill, S.510, will come to a vote in the Senate this week or next week. If you value local, natural food production, NOW is the time to act! Please use this Action Item and send the message to the Senate: "NO FAKE FOOD SAFETY BILL". Demand strong, unequivocal protection for local, natural food production! Please forward this message to everyone you know and ask them to act too! Two action steps to take: |
| April 25, 2010 18:21:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | JuliaZ |
| Email: | juliaz{at}gmail.com |
| HomePage: | http://www.facebook.com/pages/GPM-InfoComm-20/118996864784183?ref=nf |
| Comments: | Luis, Great to see you here! There is a new place for GPMers to hang out... I have linked to it but you can also look here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/GPM-InfoComm-20/118996864784183?ref=nf InfoComm 2.0 is a Facebook page for us to hang virtual flyers out of the rain but in a highly visible place. I anticipate a high level of freedom but spam will be moderated off the page. Great Green March 2011... who is going to do part or all of it? I am so tempted... trying to figure out how it can or might fit into my life. We will see! |
| April 20, 2010 06:11:42 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Evan |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Hilarious, Paulien. Welcome Luis! |
| April 19, 2010 21:44:21 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Luis HELLO! Great to hear from you. |
| April 19, 2010 14:27:28 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | luis Pardo |
| Email: | pardolj{at}gmail.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | hello again GPM family, I was very touched to see so many photos of the reunions in California etc, everyone is looking good. I am living in LA and SF ( travel a lot) and hoping to connect again with folks. Working on the Barbara Boxer campaign, and environmental justice issues, including health care. take care, Luis Pardo |
| April 19, 2010 02:47:25 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kXOg23pGeA&feature=related |
| Comments: | Hey Evan, just for you! here's Walter, the guy who wants to be a greeter at Walmart. He is a big hit here in Holland. Only second to Achmed the dead terrorist. Enjoy! |
| April 16, 2010 20:27:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1WZwGjtEs&feature=related |
| Comments: | And here is a classic energy use device... |
| April 15, 2010 22:10:50 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Evan, again I am so happy that you are back here participating! Indeed, we are citizens of the USA, but our national government is largely controlled by the Fortune 1000 including WalMart. I feel hopeful because I know that the final script is not written and in fact is never written, but our democracy is truly in a sad state - perhaps even worse than our economy. |
| April 14, 2010 12:46:26 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Evan |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Number one employer in the U.S. = WalMart. Number one employer in China = WalMart. After the United States Defense Department, WalMart has the largest computer network in the world. While I agree with Joe about Brazil, India, etc., we may end up citizens of WalMart. |
| April 14, 2010 05:17:23 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Shanawa |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3738920409515424173#docid=2941416190740682934 |
| Comments: | A very close friend of mine, Stephen Nalty who lives in Colorado sent me an email that directed me to a web sight that demonstrated the concept of a magnetic motor. It's development may lead to the replacement of the internal combustion engine. Check it out, it's a beautiful concept. Above is the link. Can you imagine being able to drive a car with out gas or deseal |
| April 14, 2010 05:15:55 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Ted, the USA is certainly in a financial marriage of sorts with China. They make it, we buy it and then they send the profits back to the US when they buy our debt. However, the US is also the co-creator and epicenter of the post WWII capitalist financial trade and monetary system set up at Bretton Woods. The US has been partially exempt from those rules it created yet has imposed them on others through the World Trade Organization and the World Bank for decades. The Great Recession we are still experiencing has proved that the US is still exempt from the rules for the time being, but the wheel is turning. A multipolar financial world is emerging that the US will not control for long. Brazil, Russia, India, China are emerging financial superpowers on par or larger than the US, the EU, and Japan. When China re-absorbs Taiwan, it will rule the world financially. Right now the US is too big to fail, but the seeds for our failure in the future have been sown and are growing. Our children.. |
| April 13, 2010 19:59:35 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | Come and visit! |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Paulien, our little town is Nederland which was founded by citizens of your country 150 years ago as a gold mining town. We actually live or will live when we return to the US outside of Nederland by about 5 miles. Nederland just legalized pot and is infamous for Frozen Dead Guy Days. Where we live we have a household water well 500 feet deep, we have a household septic system to process our sewage and we pay for our garbage/recycling pick up. We are on the electric grid for now and use propane for heat and hot water. The Gilpin county government maintains our roads and plows snow. Our property taxes pay for the schooling of our children. It is pretty spare and pretty simple governance. I do not know what town you are talking about, but Evan Conroy lives about 10 miles from us as does Darryl Purpose as does Jay Vogt. Irene Shonle lives less than a mile from us. We are in the middle of nowhere surrounded by pine trees and mountains and rivers and peace marchers. Could be worse. |
| April 13, 2010 19:36:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Evan |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Shanawa, you make some very good points. I agree about the people on this page striving for better. You've put me in an awkward place; I don't want to defend the existing government structures...I get very angry about the terrible things being done. I think about George Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush and his battles with Ralph Nader's mother. Yes, there are royal families in America, and that's wrong. I don't want to argue a lot with you, I'm trying to listen. I just feel you put way to much trust in corporations. You resent big government,I resent big corporations. There we are. Be well and thrive, my friend. |
| April 13, 2010 18:48:32 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Evan |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://reason.com/blog/2010/04/13/the-colorado-springs-experimen |
| Comments: | Perhaps you are talking about Colorado Springs (see link above). They haven't eliminated taxes, but they have come close to going broke, and the citizen reaction has been "cut more". My home state is a strange place. Colorado Springs is the home of the "moral majority"...military, right wing christian activist...it is like much of the state, BUT then there is the Denver, Boulder, Aspen axis, which is home to some of the most liberal people in the United States. Politically, Colorado went "blue" in 2008 for the first time since 1976, voting for Obama, and Dems in congress. Both sides are united by a love of the outdoors (Colorado may be the most active state in the U.S., physically), but one side loves the hunting and the other side loves the environmental protection. Read the article above, we'll see how their "experiment" in smaller and smaller government works out. Does this mean they'll shut down the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs? It is government, right? |
| April 13, 2010 16:00:19 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Evan |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Colorado is also my home state, but I haven't heard about this. I can't find it on a google search. Joe, do you know anything about it? |
| April 13, 2010 15:21:40 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Say Joe, someone told me the other day about a town in Colorado where people voted down taxes and they have to make their own arrangements for things like garbage. As that's your home state, what can you tell about that? How is it working out? |
| April 13, 2010 11:44:42 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Evan |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | in their best interests to bring back a slave class, whether it is an already existing slave class (sweat shops), or a new one (eliminated middle class) I'm sure they appreciate your help. |
| April 13, 2010 06:04:19 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Evan |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Shanawa, do you read your own posts? On the one hand, these corporations did evil because of a corrupt government that protected them, while on the other hand, the government destroys the honest businesses? Do you see your own contradiction? With a separation of government and business as you ask for, how will you have this peace march? Making weapons is BIG money and BIG business, building that wealth you love. Do you think they will just stop because you marched? Or, with this lovely separation you want, perhaps they will just attack you, steal from you, even kill you. Why not? It's good money and it makes them wealthy. In fact, there are lots of ways to make tremendous wealth destroying Mother Earth, destroying people with less wealth and power. It's such a pretty vision, as long as you are wealthy and powerful and have no government to stop you. By the way, MY radical theory is that the ruling class, as you call them, are based on WEALTH, not politicians, and it is ... |
| April 13, 2010 06:02:48 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Precisely Joe, given the amount China has invested in us, it would get dragged down too if we said we couldn't even plan on recovery....and I doubt the world economies would consider a reset to say...1938. |
| April 13, 2010 00:45:32 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Ted, your idea that the USA is too big to fail (financially) is very interesting to me depending on how one actually defines the USA. It seems to me that individual citizens are allowed to fail. Cities and towns are allowed to fail. Small and medium sized corporations are allowed to fail. It can be argued that states have been allowed to fail - California for instance - seems to be falling apart at the seems and seems to be approaching bankruptcy. What has not been allowed to fail are large corporations that are financially embedded with the federal government and the federal government itself which supports, regulates and bails out such corporations. What the Bush years and the first part of the Obama years have made clearer and clearer is that there is very little difference financially between the federal government and the Fortune 1000. If you accept this description, then who can guarantee that the USA is too big to fail? Is it the rest of the world financial community? |
| April 12, 2010 13:31:39 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Oh, and for taxes...I agree it's a battle to get our tax money spent on what we think is necessary, especially since the people with money don't want it spent on keeping an eye on them (see labor/environment bits above) or keeping them from amassing enough to make it worth their while to set up shop overseas. How much is enough? can we make you keep paying the 10 workers that your new robot displaced? do we tax you enough to pay for daycares or will you pay enough so your workers can afford it? same with health care? either way, Taiwan factories are waiting for your decision....dizzy yet?...(oh, and for you flat taxers, 15% matters more to me than to Oprah) |
| April 12, 2010 06:06:58 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | ...knowing that times will get harder and products more expensive and we'll have less choice (if we are going to compete with Taiwan we can't be competing with each other now can we?). Oh, and do we sacrifice the land and the water for the products we need? that cotton takes a lot of water...even hemp needs a little. Ready to eat only what's in season? a days train away?....ready to shovel coal on a train? mine Uranium in four corners....maybe?....think most of America is?. Think you'll get far suggesting that your local sports team do without their new stadium in favor of community gardens?. Where's your money? big bank? jar under your bed? credit union?....mines tied up in food and rent futures. And no "if we just believe enough, Unicorns that shit money will manifest" type wishing. I'm already a bicycle mechanic, so I'm okay with a low-tech/impact future...but strawberries in December are nice. |
| April 12, 2010 05:53:22 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Okay Shanawa...let's solve the Belgium problem (a former empire now a mediocre country). Government/Corporation colusion and our demand for cheap goods has resulted in Americas manufacturing base being abandoned in favor of overseas production....and the recent housing/tech/finance bubble collapse has us in huge debt (America is itself "too big to fail"). How do we (and by we I mean you) start or restart any business or even industry and get Americans working and producing our own goods in any sort of competitive manner?. Americans won't work for the wages necessary to make a manufacturing plant competitive (see cheap goods mention above), and raw materials are either in short supply or cheaper from overseas, or mechanization negates the need for labor. And given the restrictions on sweatshop treatment that Americans have fought for...(40 hour week, child labor, safe conditions, etc.) making labor cost what they are...how do we proceed?. Think Americans will work harder despite... |
| April 12, 2010 05:40:41 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Shanawa, if we posted here every time a child died or was crippled by the U.S. corporate health care system or lack of access to said system it would go on forever. Those stories never make the paper though because its business as usual in America. I don't understand why you trust a wealthy bureaucracy (corporations) with no motive but greed and no possibility of influence by us to act in our best interest. Without govt. oversight we'd be seeing mine accidents like the one last week every day and they too would not be reported because it would be business as usual. I understand your mistrust of govt. but as its been said here already, they are at least minimally responsible to us. Corporations, without any govt. oversight, would be infinitely worse. |
| April 11, 2010 19:10:01 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Actually this just sounds like an isolated incident (and no mention of whether the parents were jerks or not). And I'd rather see a 17 lb 2 year old than a 40 lb one. And as Data told his picky cat "perhaps hunger will compel you to try it again". No 2 year old is going to starve itself...maybe moms cooking sucked. And the State has a history of looking after childrens welfare (see Christian Scientist and vaccinations...vegetarians and well...a lot). And luckily the family was in a country with a system that let them feel comfortable taking their child to a doctor right away rather than waiting 'til it was bad enough to require an emergency room trip....or a call for a coroner. |
| April 11, 2010 05:09:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Shanawa |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://www.naturalnews.com/028534_junk_food_Social_workers.html |
| Comments: | well youall, here is a story of social health care for you. Social workers take baby boy after mom refuses to feed him processed junk food. This is the web page to the story. http://www.naturalnews.com/028534_junk_food_Social_workers.html Do you not find this appalling. It happened in the EU. I am sure this is the tip of an iceberg of government/medical intrusion in peoples lives. |
| April 10, 2010 15:25:29 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Sorry Joe, thought you were minimizing the influence of both religions. I had just read the kissing story and it was fresh in my mind. |
| April 9, 2010 18:23:12 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | The Dubai to Houston analogy was at best approximate. Thanks for pointing that out James. By the way, in my analogy I was actually trying to point out amongst other things a certain amount of social intolerance in both places and a sense of distaste for both religions. Regardless, I hope that it is an interesting move for Diane and her family. |
| April 9, 2010 12:03:23 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Matt Goldman |
| Email: | groovejockey{at}yahoo.com |
| HomePage: | http://www.facebook.com/matthewlovesme |
| Comments: | Hi, My name is Matt and i was at the end of the March getting arrested peacefully at the DOE and subsequently went on to march from kings bay Georgia to Cape Canaveral to protest to test launch of the trident missile and from Portsmouth NH to Groton Ct. I was 17 in 1986 and this March changed my life. I'm so happy to find a group online. I know this is far fetched as there were so many people who were part of this and this is so long ago but i met the most beautiful friend through this. His name was John Wish and i have not seen him since that time. It would be so nice to find him. If you have any suggestions or places i might try let me know. I was a part of the young hippie contingent. God that was so great. I am still committed to bringing love into the world as best i can and i am very excited to hear about the things that are happening now that people who have been carrying on are up too |
| April 9, 2010 04:49:50 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | James |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8602449.stm |
| Comments: | Per Dubai- " It is Muslim in the same way that Houston is Christian"... Unless you want to kiss in public. See above. |
| April 8, 2010 18:46:55 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe Kinczel |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thank you Diane for reminding me again why I love the GPM Guestbook. Good luck in Dubai. I just had a group from Bradley University return from there on a trip that I organized. Dubai is a very interesting place. It is very cosmopolitan and brand new built up from the desert with all the pluses and minuses that entails. It has folks from all over the world there. It is Muslim in the same way that Houston is Christian if that makes any sense to you. It is wealthy but with poverty too. I don't remember you from the march and probably you don't remember me, but I would love to hear from you when you and your family are in Dubai. My family and I are completing the last few months of a year-long adventure in Costa Rica before we move back to Colorado in July. Peace. |
| April 8, 2010 13:17:43 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Diane Licholat-Surati (Sarotte) |
| Email: | dsurati{at}aol.com |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Just ran across this website. I have lost touch with so many of you over the years. Living in Michigan (since 2006), married with an almost 7-year old son. My husband recently took a job in Abu Dhabi and we will be moving there (living in Dubai) after school gets out this summer. Plan to be there for a couple years. Been teaching in Montessori elementary past couple years - Peace Education is such a big part of the curriculum, don't know how I could ever be in any other education environment (teaching conflict resolution to young children is such a gift - for them and for me!) Became a quilter about 10 years ago and play with so many memories (including from 1986) in fabric. Keep on... Peace, Diane |
| April 8, 2010 03:53:08 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | If I have time this coming week, I will call up the hosting company and see what the story is. I do not know why they are bothering Julia as they have been billing my card for a while now. |
| April 3, 2010 18:59:36 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Shanawa |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | |
| Comments: | Brought to you by author Nigel Johnson-Hill |
| April 3, 2010 00:33:21 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://tcandm.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/credit-to-rosie-now-youre-mad/ |
| Comments: | Amen Evan! There IS a lot of love in this world. A lot of less appetizing stuff too, so I would like to join Julia in wishing you the good stuff. Have a wonderful easter weekend, you guys! |
| April 1, 2010 17:41:31 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Evan |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thanks for the love comment, Julia. I'm getting worn down by all the hate. Of course, the Tea Party and their hate, the corporate defenders and their hate, but even stupid things...hate blogs about television shows...attacks on children by those wonderful people O'Reilly and Beck. Just so tired of hate. Even on this page, the anger builds. I've let it get to me here before, but now I am more careful how much time I spend here. Thanks, Julia. Good to know there's still a little love left in the world. |
| April 1, 2010 13:28:54 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | JuliaZ |
| Email: | juliaz{at}gmail.com |
| HomePage: | http://www.facebook.com/jziobro |
| Comments: | Barbara, Apparently they still have a truly ancient credit card on file for me... I paid for the site (mostly) until ~2006 or so... and I think that card has expired in any case. It is actually just an annoyance... but because I keep getting these messages, I needed to make sure that the site was not going to be removed if I did not pay, while making sure also that they were not being paid twice and not giving us appropriate credit. My husband is going to help move us to a cheaper site hosting company that uses 100% green power! Once Joe is back in the country, John and Joe will work on this. :-) Love to all, even if we do not totally agree about everything. |
| March 31, 2010 07:27:20 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Barbara |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Joe, What is the story with Julia also being billed? Did the company do it by mistake? Was it resolved? |
| March 30, 2010 15:06:54 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Thank you Paulien for your generous contribution to the website cost. |
| March 30, 2010 14:35:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | There was one young woman on the march who taught me something really, really important: she said you could do anything for peace and it would work - dance for peace, bake a cake for peace, literally ANYTHING. Thank you, young woman, where ever you are now, I hope you are still dancing... |
| March 28, 2010 07:31:03 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | There were many other people on the march who turned out to be pivotal influences on the turn my life is taking, meeting Cobin Harney was a big one. He is gone now, but he left each of us he touched with a task to do what we can caring for life on this planet. Well, I am not traveling the world anymore these days, but the world now comes to me at my work. My job is teaching Dutch to immigrants, in itself wonderful work, helping people make sense of what is being said and being able to communicate. But there is more to it, the students themselves, teaching some of them to read and write, opening a whole new world for themselves. And the interaction between the students, they become friends - even the ones who in their country of origin were arch-enemies. So it turns out to be about promoting peace and justice in a new way. The justice part is also close to my heart. Specially teaching a group of women rescued from forced prostitution, sex-slavery. |
| March 28, 2010 07:27:18 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Sure Barbara, but what I would really like to do is tell how the past connects to the future, to the here and now. Of course my childhood experiences count for some, seeing so much of the world, and coming to see the planet and the human race as one, diverse as it is. But the march was also a much bigger influence than I ever realized when I was on it! I have a pretty sharp tongue at times and when I started out on the march I often criticized America and you Americans, till Ann Edelman took me to task about it one day, saying the way I went about it was hurtful and aggressive. That was not my intention, so I was floored by it, but she was right and it did get me started on finding other, much better ways to communicate. On the outreach bus there were these Quaker guidelines to public speaking, and they opened a new world for me. I am still opinionated and outspoken, but hopefully not in a hurtful way. |
| March 28, 2010 07:23:32 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Barbara |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I hear you on that Ted. Much the same as I have been thinking these days. Pauline, I find your story very interesting. Can we hear more? |
| March 28, 2010 01:42:53 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Ted T. |
| Email: | tdthomas16{at}att.net |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Okay, back to basics.....Palin on her blog, had crosshairs on Democrats offices and the phrase "Don't retreat...reload"....no implications there?. How do we bring nonviolence back into the debate?. Civility is being used merely as a buzzword for "don't shoot at us" with "you lie" and "babykiller" used and apoligized for (wink,wink,nudge,nudge). I fear the rhetoric more and more each day....and the fear has gotten to me. And the immigration debate is gonna be a doozy...I think we should cap it at 1491 levels, but that may be unrealistic. And now the Indians (not the Native Americans) are cutting and running for home. Most Americans seem to be sitting it out and just watching from the sidelines, with only the haters posting everywhere. I post where I can, but I'm just one man. Anybody interested in opening a factory to build something?..oh, wait they took the Buy American bit out of the Stimulas Bill...so we should open it in China. Whatever happened to that planned community talk? |
| March 27, 2010 22:36:22 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Yes Joe, my Dad started out in a colonial law, needless to say that was a short-lived carrier! Being also a specialist in international trade laws he stayed on in an advisory capacity to the newly independent Indonesia. My Mom also worked at the embassy doing cultural exchanges. We traveled a lot, living three months at a time in various Asian countries. But most of the time we lived in Indonesia. The wars I saw were of course the war of Indonesian independence, but also on the Moluccan Islands, people fighting Indonesia for their own independent republic. Also in North Sumatra in Aceh, where the fighting still flares up from time to time these days. Also people fighting militias in struggles over the resources. Political struggles. In the end some 20 families from the island of Java wound up calling the shots, very much like in the Philippines. Their relatives got the important jobs on all the other islands and it still causes friction and bloodshed. |
| March 26, 2010 18:20:50 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Paulien, I too am happy with the increased activity here. I fully respect Shanawa's right to live his life as he sees fit and I also have the right not to engage with him regarding Neo Tech or The Twelve Visions. As to your childhood, how did you start off in Indonesia, were your parents somehow part of the Dutch colonial presence there? What sort of fighting was going on there? It still seems so conflictual in Indonesia. Did you move around there a lot? At what point did you move back to Holland and how did that feel? I have so many questions, but don't want to pry. It feels like we are continuing a conversation that we started 24 years ago. |
| March 26, 2010 15:41:23 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Joe, you were also interested in hearing about my impressions on EU integration, but I am afraid I am still very undecided over many of the issues. But I could mention a few: I am not exactly happy with people representing only THEIR country in the European parliament. Also I think the expansion is going way too fast, I see a trend of opening up to our neighbors, but simultaneously closing up to folks from other continents. I am keeping a real close eye on EU decisions being made when it comes to refugees and immigration in general! When it comes to the economics of it, it is also a worry, especially in these hard times. Granted, the EU has done wonders for the quality of life in countries like Poland and Ireland, but not so for the Greeks. I find myself wondering if the common market can work out if it keeps expanding itself at this rate, it is so very complicated and bigger is not necessarily better... |
| March 26, 2010 15:24:52 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Paulien |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Though I love the discussion which has suddenly flared up on this page, I must admit being more than just a little appalled by neo think! But on another subject Joe, I don't mind talking about my childhood in South East Asia. Mostly Indonesia, more than 3000 islands, each with a subtly unique culture. Religiously very diverse: Hindi, Muslims, Christians and Animists. White beaches, black beaches, mountains and rain forests. Many languages, I have forgotten them now, but as a child I spoke dialects of Malay and Cantonese. Where I lived the folks were poor, but there were plenty of fruits and vegetables growing everywhere, and everyone shared, so there was no hunger. On most islands preparing food was considered an Art, and everyone was an Artist. In that way it a truly wonderful a childhood, it could have been paradise, but of course there was also a lot of war and fighting going on, the aftermath of World War II and the Cold War starting up. |
| March 26, 2010 13:50:40 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | On yet another another subject, Darryl Purpose and Doug/Jani/Canyon McWilliams are coming down here to visit us for the next week or so. We will all go to visit Monteverde which was settled by US Quakers fleeing the Korean War draft. We will also visit Tabacon hot springs near Arenal volcano and then on to Samara beach on the Pacific Ocean. We can't wait as our kids are off school for the next two weeks for Easter break. We will be peace marchers on zip lines, in the jungle, in hot springs on a volcanic slope and on the beach and in the ocean. This is the march we signed up for! |
| March 25, 2010 23:11:51 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Joe |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | On another subject, what do folks think about immigration "reform"? It seems to be the next big issue and I am not particularly well educated about it. |
| March 25, 2010 11:53:50 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Shanawa |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | I walked across the nation on the Longest Walk to tell people about the need for a respect for nature. My poetry is based on that. Who are you to tell me how I should think!!! As far as exploitation you exploit every time you dig in your garden to plant food or turn on the faucet to get a glass of water. Every thing goes back to nature no matter what we make. If it is not maintained by humans it crumbles back to nature. We are the creators here on this plain of life, we create what we make and can solve any problem when we put our minds to it. So let's get off the race crap. As far as your hate for he, him and men I will not even bother with that. I had enough of that on the walk and thank creation that not all women think like you do on that level. If anyone wants to know more about what Neo Think is about then go to www.twelvevisionsparty.com On that web page Mark Hamilton speaks himself about the future we are building. |
| March 25, 2010 08:21:45 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Laura M |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | My goal is global nuclear disarmament. |
| March 25, 2010 07:05:00 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | JuliaZ |
| Email: | juliaz{at}gmail.com |
| HomePage: | http://www.facebook.com/jziobro |
| Comments: | Twelve Visions advances WEALTH, HEALTH and PEACE as their three goals. My three goals are different: HEALTH, HAPPINESS and PEACE. I do not think wealth leads to happiness. On the contrary, if you look around, you will see that many wealthy people are "free" on the surface, but they are desperately UNhappy, cheating on their spouses, addicted to drugs, or engaged in other self-destructive behaviors. Happy people are just happy. I'm more interested in that. You can have the wealth, brother, I just need enough to get by. |
| March 25, 2010 06:00:28 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | JuliaZ |
| Email: | juliaz{at}gmail.com |
| HomePage: | http://www.facebook.com/jziobro |
| Comments: | Shanawa, I expect more of you, my friend. If you are going to follow a belief system, you should investigate it thoroughly. You should read the writings of its leader(s). In twenty minutes of reading (I am a FAST reader) I had read enough to convince me of the illness of their philosophy. And they are NOT about empowering women; everything is "he" and "him" and "businessman" and "profit". Nothing about families, children, or looking out for others. We are at opposite poles and you will not get me to agree to be part of their incredibly selfish, wasteful system. It seems that they are against direct violence. Wonderful. Consider, however, that exploitation is another form of violence... it seems being Native American you would be personally, painfully aware of that. I wish you peace, but I am not interested in discussing this cult with you further. You are not informed enough about your own position to do anything but argue on the most surface level. |
| March 25, 2010 05:55:42 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http:// |
| Comments: | Oh and Julia, As far as women are concerned just how do you think that Neo Think dose not want women to have rights. You are not listening!!! Neo Think is for the right of the individual to be free of initiatory force. So no one, No one can tell an individual woman what she can and can not do unless she uses initiatory force against another. Women are just as free and independent as men. |
| March 25, 2010 04:03:02 (GMT Time) |
| Name: | Gene |
| Email: | |
| HomePage: | http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.unabomber/msg/f2a168a22e24b8d7 |